We Must Stop Fascism in America
I had an epiphany this afternoon. I was watching Chris Matthews and this spokesperson for the Gun Owners of America was on. He defended all the people bringing Semi Automatic rifles to Obama events. So Matthews asked him, “Do you think people should be able to bring a loaded gun and sit in the first row of a President Obama event. And the gun owners flack says –”Yes.”
My epiphany was :”Wow! There is a real American Neo-Fascist Movement abroad.”
My disbelief came on top of the epiphany about the woman yesterday who was comparing Obama to Hitler. She has not a semester of history in her brain. That’s why Barney said she was like arguing with a coffee table. Thats what I feel sometimes about some of our correspondents. Here’s some real history, by the twentieth century’s last great living historian Eric Hobsbwam.
“Fascism was triumphantly anti-liberal. It also provided the proof that man can, without difficulty, combine crack-brained beliefs about the world with a confident mastery of contemporary high technology…. Nevertheless, the combination of conservative values, the techniques of mass democracy, and an innovative ideology of irrationalist savagery, essentially centered in nationalism, must be explained…. The strong commitment of the Left, from the liberal onwards, to anti-war movements, the huge popular revulsion against the mass killings of the First World War, led many to underestimate the emergence of a relatively small, but absolutely numerous, minority for whom uniform and discipline, sacrifice-of self and others- and blood arms and power were what made masculine life worth living. These Rambos of their time were natural recruits for the Radical Right.”
The rise of Hitler was on the back of a lot of alienated lower middle class thugs, known as the Brownshirts. In 1930 Germany they made up maybe 12% of the population. These guys strutting around Obama events with Semi Automatics are America’s Brownshirts. They need to be opposed right now. In Germany the “good people” didn’t oppose the brownshirts in 1930 when they were a real minority. There are a lot of scared American out there–they’ve lost their 401 K Plans and they don’t know who to blame. They’ve been told by Limbaugh since the days of Ronald Reagan that “the government was the problem”. Now they are freaked out. They’re in the Interregnum–”The old is dying and the new cannot be born”–and Fascist solutions (throw all the immigrants out and build up the military to Kick Iran’s butt) may be appealing. So that is exactly the Propaganda War that is transpiring right now.
However, My guess is that David Axelrod and Rahm Emmanuel have as good a polling operation as anyone in the country and they know that the independents don’t want to be identified with the birthers or the Lyndon LaRouche “Obama as Hitler” crowd. These guys totting guns are a fringe element and the sooner we realize that elections have consequences, that the majority rules and the birthers and fascists can “love it or leave it” (as the 60′s statement went), the better for everyone.
Dream on.
It’s the purple shirts (SEIU) / and the teamsters holding Americans hostages for salaries that should pay somewhere on scale between McDonald’s and the hair salon.
My God man, we’ve had 3 actual incidences of violence at these things, all cause by liberals who are pissed they can’t stage manage a lie.
The masses are against you Jon, the masses are “anti-Jon’ – well not really but you get mah drift.
What you should be doing right now, is not trying to belittle the MASSIVE outpouring of people against your side, by claiming they are just a guy with a gun and a girl yelling, “Hitler,” – start with they are as smart as you and go from there. That’s what I do with you.
just watched the Chris Mathews interview with that criminal Tom Delay – Delay mentions when his opponents brought in paraplegics and dumped them on the floor in front of him speaking – he said the trick is to just let them speak… and keep speaking and speaking, they’ll do themselves in.
Barney Frank was afraid, he’s always afraid to really let anyone speak. Sorry Barney, the money has already been spent.
Dream on.
It’s the purple shirts (SEIU) / and the teamsters holding Americans hostages for salaries that should pay somewhere on scale between McDonald’s and the hair salon.
My God man, we’ve had 3 actual incidences of violence at these things, all cause by liberals who are pissed they can’t stage manage a lie.
The masses are against you Jon, the masses are “anti-Jon’ – well not really but you get mah drift.
What you should be doing right now, is not trying to belittle the MASSIVE outpouring of people against your side, by claiming they are just a guy with a gun and a girl yelling, “Hitler,” – start with they are as smart as you and go from there. That’s what I do with you.
just watched the Chris Mathews interview with that criminal Tom Delay – Delay mentions when his opponents brought in paraplegics and dumped them on the floor in front of him speaking – he said the trick is to just let them speak… and keep speaking and speaking, they’ll do themselves in.
Barney Frank was afraid, he’s always afraid to really let anyone speak. Sorry Barney, the money has already been spent.
Dream on.
It’s the purple shirts (SEIU) / and the teamsters holding Americans hostages for salaries that should pay somewhere on scale between McDonald’s and the hair salon.
My God man, we’ve had 3 actual incidences of violence at these things, all cause by liberals who are pissed they can’t stage manage a lie.
The masses are against you Jon, the masses are “anti-Jon’ – well not really but you get mah drift.
What you should be doing right now, is not trying to belittle the MASSIVE outpouring of people against your side, by claiming they are just a guy with a gun and a girl yelling, “Hitler,” – start with they are as smart as you and go from there. That’s what I do with you.
just watched the Chris Mathews interview with that criminal Tom Delay – Delay mentions when his opponents brought in paraplegics and dumped them on the floor in front of him speaking – he said the trick is to just let them speak… and keep speaking and speaking, they’ll do themselves in.
Barney Frank was afraid, he’s always afraid to really let anyone speak. Sorry Barney, the money has already been spent.
Oh man I can hear the herd rumbling even now.
Do you feel the ground shaking?
Here they come.
Oh man I can hear the herd rumbling even now.
Do you feel the ground shaking?
Here they come.
Oh man I can hear the herd rumbling even now.
Do you feel the ground shaking?
Here they come.
Tom Delay is going to be on “Dancing with the Stars.”
I presume he’ll be packing heat.
Tom Delay is going to be on “Dancing with the Stars.”
I presume he’ll be packing heat.
Tom Delay is going to be on “Dancing with the Stars.”
I presume he’ll be packing heat.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/08/19/tom_delay_on_town_hall_protests_obama__dancing_with_the_stars.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/08/19/tom_delay_on_town_hall_protests_obama__dancing_with_the_stars.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/08/19/tom_delay_on_town_hall_protests_obama__dancing_with_the_stars.html
Morgan you are a victim of your own propaganda for the last 30 years. America, (if it ever was) is no longer a center-right country. You are in the minority Morgan. You are a noisy minority with lots of silly opinions, but at the end of the day you don’t matter. If you are lucky you make up 16% of the voting public.
Morgan you are a victim of your own propaganda for the last 30 years. America, (if it ever was) is no longer a center-right country. You are in the minority Morgan. You are a noisy minority with lots of silly opinions, but at the end of the day you don’t matter. If you are lucky you make up 16% of the voting public.
Morgan you are a victim of your own propaganda for the last 30 years. America, (if it ever was) is no longer a center-right country. You are in the minority Morgan. You are a noisy minority with lots of silly opinions, but at the end of the day you don’t matter. If you are lucky you make up 16% of the voting public.
Gallup two days ago: Conservatives outnumber liberals in all 50 states.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574358953782324812.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
That won’t even convince you will it? All those poll respondents lied, they all lie, those lying liars who lie, lie, lie.
Can’t you for a moment imagine that this is still a center-right country, who’s open minded enough to let a guy preaching “no red states, no blue states” piss off blue states 50% of the time?
C’mon Jon, “you can do eeet!”
Gallup two days ago: Conservatives outnumber liberals in all 50 states.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574358953782324812.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
That won’t even convince you will it? All those poll respondents lied, they all lie, those lying liars who lie, lie, lie.
Can’t you for a moment imagine that this is still a center-right country, who’s open minded enough to let a guy preaching “no red states, no blue states” piss off blue states 50% of the time?
C’mon Jon, “you can do eeet!”
Gallup two days ago: Conservatives outnumber liberals in all 50 states.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574358953782324812.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
That won’t even convince you will it? All those poll respondents lied, they all lie, those lying liars who lie, lie, lie.
Can’t you for a moment imagine that this is still a center-right country, who’s open minded enough to let a guy preaching “no red states, no blue states” piss off blue states 50% of the time?
C’mon Jon, “you can do eeet!”
Gallup two days ago: Conservatives outnumber liberals in all 50 states.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574358953782324812.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
That won’t even convince you will it? All those poll respondents lied, they all lie, those lying liars who lie, lie, lie.
Can’t you for a moment imagine that this is still a center-right country, who’s open minded enough to let a guy preaching “no red states, no blue states” piss off blue states 50% of the time?
C’mon Jon, “you can do eeet!”
I’m talking Democrats to Republicans Morgan. Thats what politics is about. The Democrats won the election. Now they get to lead, just like you guys led with Bush.
I’m talking Democrats to Republicans Morgan. Thats what politics is about. The Democrats won the election. Now they get to lead, just like you guys led with Bush.
Their 300 million guns say otherwise, or so they claim.
Their 300 million guns say otherwise, or so they claim.
Their 300 million guns say otherwise, or so they claim.
Their 300 million guns say otherwise, or so they claim.
Except now the money is all spent. And it just eats at you doesn’t it? Me too. Can’t we agree on a balanced budget amendment?
Hey, this is exactly how our discussion started 18 months ago!
Except now the money is all spent. And it just eats at you doesn’t it? Me too. Can’t we agree on a balanced budget amendment?
Hey, this is exactly how our discussion started 18 months ago!
Except now the money is all spent. And it just eats at you doesn’t it? Me too. Can’t we agree on a balanced budget amendment?
Hey, this is exactly how our discussion started 18 months ago!
Except now the money is all spent. And it just eats at you doesn’t it? Me too. Can’t we agree on a balanced budget amendment?
Hey, this is exactly how our discussion started 18 months ago!
Exercising 2nd Amendment rights in a right-to-carry state != brownshirt.
But I fully accept that a lot of people don’t think that the 2nd Amendment should exist and freak-the-fuck-right-out when confronted with it’s existence.
Exercising 2nd Amendment rights in a right-to-carry state != brownshirt.
But I fully accept that a lot of people don’t think that the 2nd Amendment should exist and freak-the-fuck-right-out when confronted with it’s existence.
Exercising 2nd Amendment rights in a right-to-carry state != brownshirt.
But I fully accept that a lot of people don’t think that the 2nd Amendment should exist and freak-the-fuck-right-out when confronted with it’s existence.
Exercising 2nd Amendment rights in a right-to-carry state != brownshirt.
But I fully accept that a lot of people don’t think that the 2nd Amendment should exist and freak-the-fuck-right-out when confronted with it’s existence.
guns don’t belong around our president. period. even if the person carrying is competent, others nearby may NOT be competent. it’s totally conceivable a weapon could be swiped and used to tragic consequence.
guns don’t belong around our president. period. even if the person carrying is competent, others nearby may NOT be competent. it’s totally conceivable a weapon could be swiped and used to tragic consequence.
guns don’t belong around our president. period. even if the person carrying is competent, others nearby may NOT be competent. it’s totally conceivable a weapon could be swiped and used to tragic consequence.
guns don’t belong around our president. period. even if the person carrying is competent, others nearby may NOT be competent. it’s totally conceivable a weapon could be swiped and used to tragic consequence.
Why does no one ever mention the reason for the Second Amendment? It wasn’t so New Englanders in tricornered hats could hunt squirrels with their muskets.
It was to legitimatize arming Southern militias to put down slave rebellions. It’s of a piece with that whole business of giving the South an extra 2/3rds vote for every slave body. Not pretty, but then this country is narcotized on its own myths.
I think Jon’s dead on. I’ve been bothered for some time by how similar current dynamics are to the rise of the German fascists.
And, Morgan, you student of history and politics and economics you, remember Lincoln’s comment about “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt”? You really ought to take that one to heart.
Why does no one ever mention the reason for the Second Amendment? It wasn’t so New Englanders in tricornered hats could hunt squirrels with their muskets.
It was to legitimatize arming Southern militias to put down slave rebellions. It’s of a piece with that whole business of giving the South an extra 2/3rds vote for every slave body. Not pretty, but then this country is narcotized on its own myths.
I think Jon’s dead on. I’ve been bothered for some time by how similar current dynamics are to the rise of the German fascists.
And, Morgan, you student of history and politics and economics you, remember Lincoln’s comment about “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt”? You really ought to take that one to heart.
Why does no one ever mention the reason for the Second Amendment? It wasn’t so New Englanders in tricornered hats could hunt squirrels with their muskets.
It was to legitimatize arming Southern militias to put down slave rebellions. It’s of a piece with that whole business of giving the South an extra 2/3rds vote for every slave body. Not pretty, but then this country is narcotized on its own myths.
I think Jon’s dead on. I’ve been bothered for some time by how similar current dynamics are to the rise of the German fascists.
And, Morgan, you student of history and politics and economics you, remember Lincoln’s comment about “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt”? You really ought to take that one to heart.
Why does no one ever mention the reason for the Second Amendment? It wasn’t so New Englanders in tricornered hats could hunt squirrels with their muskets.
It was to legitimatize arming Southern militias to put down slave rebellions. It’s of a piece with that whole business of giving the South an extra 2/3rds vote for every slave body. Not pretty, but then this country is narcotized on its own myths.
I think Jon’s dead on. I’ve been bothered for some time by how similar current dynamics are to the rise of the German fascists.
And, Morgan, you student of history and politics and economics you, remember Lincoln’s comment about “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt”? You really ought to take that one to heart.
You so don’t know what you are talking about. T Bill rates are down four weeks in a row. There world will take all the US debt we want to sell it.
You so don’t know what you are talking about. T Bill rates are down four weeks in a row. There world will take all the US debt we want to sell it.
You so don’t know what you are talking about. T Bill rates are down four weeks in a row. There world will take all the US debt we want to sell it.
You so don’t know what you are talking about. T Bill rates are down four weeks in a row. There world will take all the US debt we want to sell it.
This is a frightening conversation.
Morgan appears to believe, sincerely, that his family and mine are better off in a society where people march in the streets with guns and shout “Hitler” at people they don’t agree with. He also seems to think that is a ‘majority’ perspective.
I’m concerned by the uprising of these ‘brownshirts,’ who think it would be great to see the country devolve to an armed camp. Even if they are the minority, they have guns and rhetoric.
I’m interested in ways that we might hope to protect ourselves and our children from that insanitiy.
I hope that my children get to live in a more sane environment than what Morgan describes — without having to move to Canada (where it is cold, and they would have an armed, crazy neighbor in the U.S.).
This is a frightening conversation.
Morgan appears to believe, sincerely, that his family and mine are better off in a society where people march in the streets with guns and shout “Hitler” at people they don’t agree with. He also seems to think that is a ‘majority’ perspective.
I’m concerned by the uprising of these ‘brownshirts,’ who think it would be great to see the country devolve to an armed camp. Even if they are the minority, they have guns and rhetoric.
I’m interested in ways that we might hope to protect ourselves and our children from that insanitiy.
I hope that my children get to live in a more sane environment than what Morgan describes — without having to move to Canada (where it is cold, and they would have an armed, crazy neighbor in the U.S.).
This is a frightening conversation.
Morgan appears to believe, sincerely, that his family and mine are better off in a society where people march in the streets with guns and shout “Hitler” at people they don’t agree with. He also seems to think that is a ‘majority’ perspective.
I’m concerned by the uprising of these ‘brownshirts,’ who think it would be great to see the country devolve to an armed camp. Even if they are the minority, they have guns and rhetoric.
I’m interested in ways that we might hope to protect ourselves and our children from that insanitiy.
I hope that my children get to live in a more sane environment than what Morgan describes — without having to move to Canada (where it is cold, and they would have an armed, crazy neighbor in the U.S.).
This is a frightening conversation.
Morgan appears to believe, sincerely, that his family and mine are better off in a society where people march in the streets with guns and shout “Hitler” at people they don’t agree with. He also seems to think that is a ‘majority’ perspective.
I’m concerned by the uprising of these ‘brownshirts,’ who think it would be great to see the country devolve to an armed camp. Even if they are the minority, they have guns and rhetoric.
I’m interested in ways that we might hope to protect ourselves and our children from that insanitiy.
I hope that my children get to live in a more sane environment than what Morgan describes — without having to move to Canada (where it is cold, and they would have an armed, crazy neighbor in the U.S.).
Gun toting is the new teabagging.
The difference is that it’s quite rare for a murder to involve a small packet of dried leaves.
It’s easy for me to say to myself “who the fuck are these people?” And then I realize that I know a few of them. And that they take up large swaths of the country and it’s population. Folks who think that they are tough and smart and patriotic for carrying a fucking gun.
Frankly, criminal menacing laws should have a very low threshold when somebody’s carrying a weapon. The purpose of these laws is to prevent people from being wild, unpredictable, and generally scaring the bejeezus out of everyone.
Carrying a gun blatantly through a crowd should be 1 short step away from prima facie evidence of criminal menacing. This is compatible with any reading of the 2nd Amendment.
Gun toting is the new teabagging.
The difference is that it’s quite rare for a murder to involve a small packet of dried leaves.
It’s easy for me to say to myself “who the fuck are these people?” And then I realize that I know a few of them. And that they take up large swaths of the country and it’s population. Folks who think that they are tough and smart and patriotic for carrying a fucking gun.
Frankly, criminal menacing laws should have a very low threshold when somebody’s carrying a weapon. The purpose of these laws is to prevent people from being wild, unpredictable, and generally scaring the bejeezus out of everyone.
Carrying a gun blatantly through a crowd should be 1 short step away from prima facie evidence of criminal menacing. This is compatible with any reading of the 2nd Amendment.
Gun toting is the new teabagging.
The difference is that it’s quite rare for a murder to involve a small packet of dried leaves.
It’s easy for me to say to myself “who the fuck are these people?” And then I realize that I know a few of them. And that they take up large swaths of the country and it’s population. Folks who think that they are tough and smart and patriotic for carrying a fucking gun.
Frankly, criminal menacing laws should have a very low threshold when somebody’s carrying a weapon. The purpose of these laws is to prevent people from being wild, unpredictable, and generally scaring the bejeezus out of everyone.
Carrying a gun blatantly through a crowd should be 1 short step away from prima facie evidence of criminal menacing. This is compatible with any reading of the 2nd Amendment.
Gun toting is the new teabagging.
The difference is that it’s quite rare for a murder to involve a small packet of dried leaves.
It’s easy for me to say to myself “who the fuck are these people?” And then I realize that I know a few of them. And that they take up large swaths of the country and it’s population. Folks who think that they are tough and smart and patriotic for carrying a fucking gun.
Frankly, criminal menacing laws should have a very low threshold when somebody’s carrying a weapon. The purpose of these laws is to prevent people from being wild, unpredictable, and generally scaring the bejeezus out of everyone.
Carrying a gun blatantly through a crowd should be 1 short step away from prima facie evidence of criminal menacing. This is compatible with any reading of the 2nd Amendment.
MS, it’s OK, really. Thanks to Morgan’s pals, the laissez faire capitalists, Canada will be pretty warm soon. The only problem is that he advocates theft of sovereign states’ oil reserves…at least he used to in order to justify the Iraq debacle. So if his view prevails here, you may find that your Canadian provinces are annexed as US states…and your national health is a footnote in history. Hey, we need the oil more than you do, and you won’t have to warm yourselves with it quite so much down the road… And we’ll show you a thing or two about hunting wolves and moose! Gimme that assault rifle, co-pilot!
MS, it’s OK, really. Thanks to Morgan’s pals, the laissez faire capitalists, Canada will be pretty warm soon. The only problem is that he advocates theft of sovereign states’ oil reserves…at least he used to in order to justify the Iraq debacle. So if his view prevails here, you may find that your Canadian provinces are annexed as US states…and your national health is a footnote in history. Hey, we need the oil more than you do, and you won’t have to warm yourselves with it quite so much down the road… And we’ll show you a thing or two about hunting wolves and moose! Gimme that assault rifle, co-pilot!
MS, it’s OK, really. Thanks to Morgan’s pals, the laissez faire capitalists, Canada will be pretty warm soon. The only problem is that he advocates theft of sovereign states’ oil reserves…at least he used to in order to justify the Iraq debacle. So if his view prevails here, you may find that your Canadian provinces are annexed as US states…and your national health is a footnote in history. Hey, we need the oil more than you do, and you won’t have to warm yourselves with it quite so much down the road… And we’ll show you a thing or two about hunting wolves and moose! Gimme that assault rifle, co-pilot!
Well, I’m a liberal that owns guns so maybe I’m just schizophrenic. I watched Matthews interviewing the guy in NH. I have to say they are both morons in their own special way. But interestingly enough the “private citizen” acquitted himself (slightly) better than the “professional” imho.
Jefferson however was clearly not a moron. While it is questionable at best to open carry while carrying a sign with a truncation of Jefferson’s quote, “Hardball” histrionics don’t help either. Both sides are misbehaving – the left is making up for their real and perceived injustices of the past administration, and the right is now saying, “hey you complained when we did it, now we’re complaining.”
imho both sides have lost their way…
“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure.”
Well, I’m a liberal that owns guns so maybe I’m just schizophrenic. I watched Matthews interviewing the guy in NH. I have to say they are both morons in their own special way. But interestingly enough the “private citizen” acquitted himself (slightly) better than the “professional” imho.
Jefferson however was clearly not a moron. While it is questionable at best to open carry while carrying a sign with a truncation of Jefferson’s quote, “Hardball” histrionics don’t help either. Both sides are misbehaving – the left is making up for their real and perceived injustices of the past administration, and the right is now saying, “hey you complained when we did it, now we’re complaining.”
imho both sides have lost their way…
“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure.”
Well, I’m a liberal that owns guns so maybe I’m just schizophrenic. I watched Matthews interviewing the guy in NH. I have to say they are both morons in their own special way. But interestingly enough the “private citizen” acquitted himself (slightly) better than the “professional” imho.
Jefferson however was clearly not a moron. While it is questionable at best to open carry while carrying a sign with a truncation of Jefferson’s quote, “Hardball” histrionics don’t help either. Both sides are misbehaving – the left is making up for their real and perceived injustices of the past administration, and the right is now saying, “hey you complained when we did it, now we’re complaining.”
imho both sides have lost their way…
“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure.”
I’ve been telling my friends for years that fascism is on the rise around the world, and they don’t believe me.
Some argue that the apparent expansion of capitalist marketing is an indicator of expanding freedoms (an argument I just don’t follow).
I don’t think citizens making points about the right bear arms in the U.S speaks to it though.
The evidence is in the subversion of state power by corporate interests, always a problem, but now protected by the exploitation of fear to impose draconian laws that will be used prevent citizens protecting themselves from further expansion of corporate power.
The ‘war on terror’ has built new weapons for the ongoing war on individual liberties.
I’ve been telling my friends for years that fascism is on the rise around the world, and they don’t believe me.
Some argue that the apparent expansion of capitalist marketing is an indicator of expanding freedoms (an argument I just don’t follow).
I don’t think citizens making points about the right bear arms in the U.S speaks to it though.
The evidence is in the subversion of state power by corporate interests, always a problem, but now protected by the exploitation of fear to impose draconian laws that will be used prevent citizens protecting themselves from further expansion of corporate power.
The ‘war on terror’ has built new weapons for the ongoing war on individual liberties.
Violence brings violence and you guys, the inteligencia, instead of squabbling should get it togheter as one country and look for answers instead of trowing shit at each other. You have an internal problem and an external one and its time to moove on and support the actual government that was elected democratically and solve the mess. Either that or you will have a civil war on your hands and thats not pretty. My only intention in this exchange of ideas is to bring some senses and I am sorry if I am so outspoken. I love the US and wish you well , all included.
Violence brings violence and you guys, the inteligencia, instead of squabbling should get it togheter as one country and look for answers instead of trowing shit at each other. You have an internal problem and an external one and its time to moove on and support the actual government that was elected democratically and solve the mess. Either that or you will have a civil war on your hands and thats not pretty. My only intention in this exchange of ideas is to bring some senses and I am sorry if I am so outspoken. I love the US and wish you well , all included.
Violence brings violence and you guys, the inteligencia, instead of squabbling should get it togheter as one country and look for answers instead of trowing shit at each other. You have an internal problem and an external one and its time to moove on and support the actual government that was elected democratically and solve the mess. Either that or you will have a civil war on your hands and thats not pretty. My only intention in this exchange of ideas is to bring some senses and I am sorry if I am so outspoken. I love the US and wish you well , all included.
Violence brings violence and you guys, the inteligencia, instead of squabbling should get it togheter as one country and look for answers instead of trowing shit at each other. You have an internal problem and an external one and its time to moove on and support the actual government that was elected democratically and solve the mess. Either that or you will have a civil war on your hands and thats not pretty. My only intention in this exchange of ideas is to bring some senses and I am sorry if I am so outspoken. I love the US and wish you well , all included.
I am currently reading Alan Beattie’s newish book “False Economy: A Surprising Economic History of the World” in the first chapter of which he contrasts the very different paths followed by the US and Argentina. He comments:
“There is a remarkably simple rule about how political systems reacted to the [Great] Depression, reflecting what happens when an international financial system freezes up. Countries that owed money were now cut off from more lending, saw no virtue in continuing to depend on an international system that had let them down, and moverd towards economic isolationism and political authoritarianism. Countries to whom money was owed sustained smaller economic damage and remained wedded to democracy and the international economy. Even within continents and between neighbouring countries the rule held. France, which still held significant assets abroard, remained a democracy even through repeated political crises in the 1930s; its indebted neighbour Germany, despite the initial success of the interwar Weimar republic rapidly succumbed to fascism.”
He goes on to observe that the US political system had a history of reacting to change, absorbing new ideas and addressing the demands of the discontented, even if only in a limited fashion but Argentine politics was dominated by a small self-perpetuating elite with a pathological dislike of anything that smacked of socialism.
In other words, the US now is looking a lot more like Argentina and less like its former, greater self and the reason is surely that special interests have locked arms to protect their position (and in economic terms their rent-seeking) at the expense of the wider national interest.
Thus Morgan is right to point at groups like the teamsters but these are strictly small fry. The real targets are the banksters, the pharmsters and others who via their lobbyists own Washington and run it to suit their own sectional interests because, as William Black (of “The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One” fame) has pointed out, control fraud – fraud perpetrated by the senior management – is far more damaging than any other fraud.
So we need to ask; does Obama understand this? Does he have a plan and the juice to take on and defeat the special interests?
So far the omens are not encouraging.
I am currently reading Alan Beattie’s newish book “False Economy: A Surprising Economic History of the World” in the first chapter of which he contrasts the very different paths followed by the US and Argentina. He comments:
“There is a remarkably simple rule about how political systems reacted to the [Great] Depression, reflecting what happens when an international financial system freezes up. Countries that owed money were now cut off from more lending, saw no virtue in continuing to depend on an international system that had let them down, and moverd towards economic isolationism and political authoritarianism. Countries to whom money was owed sustained smaller economic damage and remained wedded to democracy and the international economy. Even within continents and between neighbouring countries the rule held. France, which still held significant assets abroard, remained a democracy even through repeated political crises in the 1930s; its indebted neighbour Germany, despite the initial success of the interwar Weimar republic rapidly succumbed to fascism.”
He goes on to observe that the US political system had a history of reacting to change, absorbing new ideas and addressing the demands of the discontented, even if only in a limited fashion but Argentine politics was dominated by a small self-perpetuating elite with a pathological dislike of anything that smacked of socialism.
In other words, the US now is looking a lot more like Argentina and less like its former, greater self and the reason is surely that special interests have locked arms to protect their position (and in economic terms their rent-seeking) at the expense of the wider national interest.
Thus Morgan is right to point at groups like the teamsters but these are strictly small fry. The real targets are the banksters, the pharmsters and others who via their lobbyists own Washington and run it to suit their own sectional interests because, as William Black (of “The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One” fame) has pointed out, control fraud – fraud perpetrated by the senior management – is far more damaging than any other fraud.
So we need to ask; does Obama understand this? Does he have a plan and the juice to take on and defeat the special interests?
So far the omens are not encouraging.
I am currently reading Alan Beattie’s newish book “False Economy: A Surprising Economic History of the World” in the first chapter of which he contrasts the very different paths followed by the US and Argentina. He comments:
“There is a remarkably simple rule about how political systems reacted to the [Great] Depression, reflecting what happens when an international financial system freezes up. Countries that owed money were now cut off from more lending, saw no virtue in continuing to depend on an international system that had let them down, and moverd towards economic isolationism and political authoritarianism. Countries to whom money was owed sustained smaller economic damage and remained wedded to democracy and the international economy. Even within continents and between neighbouring countries the rule held. France, which still held significant assets abroard, remained a democracy even through repeated political crises in the 1930s; its indebted neighbour Germany, despite the initial success of the interwar Weimar republic rapidly succumbed to fascism.”
He goes on to observe that the US political system had a history of reacting to change, absorbing new ideas and addressing the demands of the discontented, even if only in a limited fashion but Argentine politics was dominated by a small self-perpetuating elite with a pathological dislike of anything that smacked of socialism.
In other words, the US now is looking a lot more like Argentina and less like its former, greater self and the reason is surely that special interests have locked arms to protect their position (and in economic terms their rent-seeking) at the expense of the wider national interest.
Thus Morgan is right to point at groups like the teamsters but these are strictly small fry. The real targets are the banksters, the pharmsters and others who via their lobbyists own Washington and run it to suit their own sectional interests because, as William Black (of “The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One” fame) has pointed out, control fraud – fraud perpetrated by the senior management – is far more damaging than any other fraud.
So we need to ask; does Obama understand this? Does he have a plan and the juice to take on and defeat the special interests?
So far the omens are not encouraging.
I am currently reading Alan Beattie’s newish book “False Economy: A Surprising Economic History of the World” in the first chapter of which he contrasts the very different paths followed by the US and Argentina. He comments:
“There is a remarkably simple rule about how political systems reacted to the [Great] Depression, reflecting what happens when an international financial system freezes up. Countries that owed money were now cut off from more lending, saw no virtue in continuing to depend on an international system that had let them down, and moverd towards economic isolationism and political authoritarianism. Countries to whom money was owed sustained smaller economic damage and remained wedded to democracy and the international economy. Even within continents and between neighbouring countries the rule held. France, which still held significant assets abroard, remained a democracy even through repeated political crises in the 1930s; its indebted neighbour Germany, despite the initial success of the interwar Weimar republic rapidly succumbed to fascism.”
He goes on to observe that the US political system had a history of reacting to change, absorbing new ideas and addressing the demands of the discontented, even if only in a limited fashion but Argentine politics was dominated by a small self-perpetuating elite with a pathological dislike of anything that smacked of socialism.
In other words, the US now is looking a lot more like Argentina and less like its former, greater self and the reason is surely that special interests have locked arms to protect their position (and in economic terms their rent-seeking) at the expense of the wider national interest.
Thus Morgan is right to point at groups like the teamsters but these are strictly small fry. The real targets are the banksters, the pharmsters and others who via their lobbyists own Washington and run it to suit their own sectional interests because, as William Black (of “The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One” fame) has pointed out, control fraud – fraud perpetrated by the senior management – is far more damaging than any other fraud.
So we need to ask; does Obama understand this? Does he have a plan and the juice to take on and defeat the special interests?
So far the omens are not encouraging.
Bernard, there’s nothing to “solve.” The US system is entrenched, with an automatic pointed at the head of each of us. Not only the guns (of which I am also an owner and user.) There used to be an economy, however flawed and cruel and carrying the seeds of what most of us (numerically at least) suffer now, that generated Real Wealth, and some sort of agreement that some of it should be taxed and the proceeds used for certain common-benefit purposes. April 15 is another “automatic,” as are the regular auctions of T-bills and other instruments of fiscal wealth transfer.
Now we have a nation of Consumers, not Citizens, who are looking around for someone to blame, and someone to lead the torchlight charge to “make it right” that they don’t have everything they want because of Those Other People who they’ll know when that “leader” tells them what “They” look like.
Now we have a “government” shorn of “governance,” regulatorily captured and perverted to private benefit by the insatiable demand for and supply of “the mother’s milk of politics,” that dumps an ever-increasing part of the public’s residual Real Wealth into the Forever War that creates its own reality. And a private “economy” that greases the skids with greed, blowing up one bubble after another, using the deregulatorily-sanctioned fraud called “leverage” to cadge Funny Munny certificates out of the once, present and future actual Maslow’s-Hierarchy-serving productivity of the rest of us, IOUs that WE have to pay off down the road so the tapeworms and tumors can have a nice warm place to loll around, Live Large and breed and spread. In a body politic liberally provided with sneering, snickering, disingenuous sycophants like you-ought-to-know-Who, who just loves to get all this attention. And Who just love to watch people of mostly good will swimming up like little fishes to take his bait of barbed factoids and chopped red herring and try to engage in the kind of dialogue that those Dead Old White Guys envisioned and that’s supposedly going to lead to “democracy in action.’ There is no “exchange of ideas” with such people.
Too bad everybody can’t be as smart as a snook or trout, which most of the time are smart enough to see the fraud and quick enough to spit out the hook before it’s set.
That oughta get our pet “Let’s Change The Country’s Name To ‘I Got Mine, Screw U’SA” guy ROTF laughing.
Bernard, there’s nothing to “solve.” The US system is entrenched, with an automatic pointed at the head of each of us. Not only the guns (of which I am also an owner and user.) There used to be an economy, however flawed and cruel and carrying the seeds of what most of us (numerically at least) suffer now, that generated Real Wealth, and some sort of agreement that some of it should be taxed and the proceeds used for certain common-benefit purposes. April 15 is another “automatic,” as are the regular auctions of T-bills and other instruments of fiscal wealth transfer.
Now we have a nation of Consumers, not Citizens, who are looking around for someone to blame, and someone to lead the torchlight charge to “make it right” that they don’t have everything they want because of Those Other People who they’ll know when that “leader” tells them what “They” look like.
Now we have a “government” shorn of “governance,” regulatorily captured and perverted to private benefit by the insatiable demand for and supply of “the mother’s milk of politics,” that dumps an ever-increasing part of the public’s residual Real Wealth into the Forever War that creates its own reality. And a private “economy” that greases the skids with greed, blowing up one bubble after another, using the deregulatorily-sanctioned fraud called “leverage” to cadge Funny Munny certificates out of the once, present and future actual Maslow’s-Hierarchy-serving productivity of the rest of us, IOUs that WE have to pay off down the road so the tapeworms and tumors can have a nice warm place to loll around, Live Large and breed and spread. In a body politic liberally provided with sneering, snickering, disingenuous sycophants like you-ought-to-know-Who, who just loves to get all this attention. And Who just love to watch people of mostly good will swimming up like little fishes to take his bait of barbed factoids and chopped red herring and try to engage in the kind of dialogue that those Dead Old White Guys envisioned and that’s supposedly going to lead to “democracy in action.’ There is no “exchange of ideas” with such people.
Too bad everybody can’t be as smart as a snook or trout, which most of the time are smart enough to see the fraud and quick enough to spit out the hook before it’s set.
That oughta get our pet “Let’s Change The Country’s Name To ‘I Got Mine, Screw U’SA” guy ROTF laughing.
Bernard, there’s nothing to “solve.” The US system is entrenched, with an automatic pointed at the head of each of us. Not only the guns (of which I am also an owner and user.) There used to be an economy, however flawed and cruel and carrying the seeds of what most of us (numerically at least) suffer now, that generated Real Wealth, and some sort of agreement that some of it should be taxed and the proceeds used for certain common-benefit purposes. April 15 is another “automatic,” as are the regular auctions of T-bills and other instruments of fiscal wealth transfer.
Now we have a nation of Consumers, not Citizens, who are looking around for someone to blame, and someone to lead the torchlight charge to “make it right” that they don’t have everything they want because of Those Other People who they’ll know when that “leader” tells them what “They” look like.
Now we have a “government” shorn of “governance,” regulatorily captured and perverted to private benefit by the insatiable demand for and supply of “the mother’s milk of politics,” that dumps an ever-increasing part of the public’s residual Real Wealth into the Forever War that creates its own reality. And a private “economy” that greases the skids with greed, blowing up one bubble after another, using the deregulatorily-sanctioned fraud called “leverage” to cadge Funny Munny certificates out of the once, present and future actual Maslow’s-Hierarchy-serving productivity of the rest of us, IOUs that WE have to pay off down the road so the tapeworms and tumors can have a nice warm place to loll around, Live Large and breed and spread. In a body politic liberally provided with sneering, snickering, disingenuous sycophants like you-ought-to-know-Who, who just loves to get all this attention. And Who just love to watch people of mostly good will swimming up like little fishes to take his bait of barbed factoids and chopped red herring and try to engage in the kind of dialogue that those Dead Old White Guys envisioned and that’s supposedly going to lead to “democracy in action.’ There is no “exchange of ideas” with such people.
Too bad everybody can’t be as smart as a snook or trout, which most of the time are smart enough to see the fraud and quick enough to spit out the hook before it’s set.
That oughta get our pet “Let’s Change The Country’s Name To ‘I Got Mine, Screw U’SA” guy ROTF laughing.
Bernard, there’s nothing to “solve.” The US system is entrenched, with an automatic pointed at the head of each of us. Not only the guns (of which I am also an owner and user.) There used to be an economy, however flawed and cruel and carrying the seeds of what most of us (numerically at least) suffer now, that generated Real Wealth, and some sort of agreement that some of it should be taxed and the proceeds used for certain common-benefit purposes. April 15 is another “automatic,” as are the regular auctions of T-bills and other instruments of fiscal wealth transfer.
Now we have a nation of Consumers, not Citizens, who are looking around for someone to blame, and someone to lead the torchlight charge to “make it right” that they don’t have everything they want because of Those Other People who they’ll know when that “leader” tells them what “They” look like.
Now we have a “government” shorn of “governance,” regulatorily captured and perverted to private benefit by the insatiable demand for and supply of “the mother’s milk of politics,” that dumps an ever-increasing part of the public’s residual Real Wealth into the Forever War that creates its own reality. And a private “economy” that greases the skids with greed, blowing up one bubble after another, using the deregulatorily-sanctioned fraud called “leverage” to cadge Funny Munny certificates out of the once, present and future actual Maslow’s-Hierarchy-serving productivity of the rest of us, IOUs that WE have to pay off down the road so the tapeworms and tumors can have a nice warm place to loll around, Live Large and breed and spread. In a body politic liberally provided with sneering, snickering, disingenuous sycophants like you-ought-to-know-Who, who just loves to get all this attention. And Who just love to watch people of mostly good will swimming up like little fishes to take his bait of barbed factoids and chopped red herring and try to engage in the kind of dialogue that those Dead Old White Guys envisioned and that’s supposedly going to lead to “democracy in action.’ There is no “exchange of ideas” with such people.
Too bad everybody can’t be as smart as a snook or trout, which most of the time are smart enough to see the fraud and quick enough to spit out the hook before it’s set.
That oughta get our pet “Let’s Change The Country’s Name To ‘I Got Mine, Screw U’SA” guy ROTF laughing.
As an example I live in one of the most violent country in the world and instead of brown shirts we have a violent chaos product of a society that is divided in two ( left and right)and everybody is armed. Gun control when there are so many in the streets becomes an almost impossible task and everything becomes very dangerous.
As an example I live in one of the most violent country in the world and instead of brown shirts we have a violent chaos product of a society that is divided in two ( left and right)and everybody is armed. Gun control when there are so many in the streets becomes an almost impossible task and everything becomes very dangerous.
As an example I live in one of the most violent country in the world and instead of brown shirts we have a violent chaos product of a society that is divided in two ( left and right)and everybody is armed. Gun control when there are so many in the streets becomes an almost impossible task and everything becomes very dangerous.
As an example I live in one of the most violent country in the world and instead of brown shirts we have a violent chaos product of a society that is divided in two ( left and right)and everybody is armed. Gun control when there are so many in the streets becomes an almost impossible task and everything becomes very dangerous.
people who do not know history are bound to repeat it.
let’s stop shouting and talking over each other and introduce a little bit of give and take. both sides have points which merit study but everyone looses when the tone gets louder and disrespectful.
what really gets to me is this imagery of obama/hitler. if you want to know about what life was like living in germany in the 30s and 40s i strongly suggest reading richard evans’ three part history of nazi germany – “the coming of the third reich”, the third reich in power” and the latest “the third reich at war.”
if you fancy living in a place like that, you are most welcome to leave this country at your earliest convenience, providing you buy a one way ticket.
morgan, you are just plain off the mark with your comments.
people who do not know history are bound to repeat it.
let’s stop shouting and talking over each other and introduce a little bit of give and take. both sides have points which merit study but everyone looses when the tone gets louder and disrespectful.
what really gets to me is this imagery of obama/hitler. if you want to know about what life was like living in germany in the 30s and 40s i strongly suggest reading richard evans’ three part history of nazi germany – “the coming of the third reich”, the third reich in power” and the latest “the third reich at war.”
if you fancy living in a place like that, you are most welcome to leave this country at your earliest convenience, providing you buy a one way ticket.
morgan, you are just plain off the mark with your comments.
people who do not know history are bound to repeat it.
let’s stop shouting and talking over each other and introduce a little bit of give and take. both sides have points which merit study but everyone looses when the tone gets louder and disrespectful.
what really gets to me is this imagery of obama/hitler. if you want to know about what life was like living in germany in the 30s and 40s i strongly suggest reading richard evans’ three part history of nazi germany – “the coming of the third reich”, the third reich in power” and the latest “the third reich at war.”
if you fancy living in a place like that, you are most welcome to leave this country at your earliest convenience, providing you buy a one way ticket.
morgan, you are just plain off the mark with your comments.
Dude, you are NUTS… Warren Buffet just fired the shot over the bow in the NYT – the message is crystal clear, Congress and Obama have to stop deficit spending:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/opinion/19buffett.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&sq=buffett&st=cse&scp=2
Just say you are wrong. Jesus Kee-Ryst man. There’s no more money for your causes. That’s what the people, the masses in the middle, are saying.
It’s just like republican / democrat counts: Good lord man, there have ALWAYS been more dems, but repubs win because there are more conservatives than liberals. this is WHY you are wrong. it is the LOGIC of why you are wrong. if dems always voted dem, we’d never have a repub president… if dems ran non-liberal candidates who governed int he middle – they’d have bill clinton – who got his dick sucked in the oval office and still held the middle… it is an indictment of leftism. That is the logic.
Jon I’m not against ANY of your programs IF they are paid for… which means you have work friom within the same budget as all the other wants and action items, and make the best argument.
- if you can convince people to pay more taxes GREAT.
- if you can convince people to not fight wars to save money GREAT.
but IF you can’t convince them, then you need to not get your action items fulfilled, deficit spending is the last refuge of scumbags on both sides of the aisles.
Let go of deficit spending man, so we can be friends.
Dude, you are NUTS… Warren Buffet just fired the shot over the bow in the NYT – the message is crystal clear, Congress and Obama have to stop deficit spending:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/opinion/19buffett.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&sq=buffett&st=cse&scp=2
Just say you are wrong. Jesus Kee-Ryst man. There’s no more money for your causes. That’s what the people, the masses in the middle, are saying.
It’s just like republican / democrat counts: Good lord man, there have ALWAYS been more dems, but repubs win because there are more conservatives than liberals. this is WHY you are wrong. it is the LOGIC of why you are wrong. if dems always voted dem, we’d never have a repub president… if dems ran non-liberal candidates who governed int he middle – they’d have bill clinton – who got his dick sucked in the oval office and still held the middle… it is an indictment of leftism. That is the logic.
Jon I’m not against ANY of your programs IF they are paid for… which means you have work friom within the same budget as all the other wants and action items, and make the best argument.
- if you can convince people to pay more taxes GREAT.
- if you can convince people to not fight wars to save money GREAT.
but IF you can’t convince them, then you need to not get your action items fulfilled, deficit spending is the last refuge of scumbags on both sides of the aisles.
Let go of deficit spending man, so we can be friends.
Dude, you are NUTS… Warren Buffet just fired the shot over the bow in the NYT – the message is crystal clear, Congress and Obama have to stop deficit spending:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/opinion/19buffett.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&sq=buffett&st=cse&scp=2
Just say you are wrong. Jesus Kee-Ryst man. There’s no more money for your causes. That’s what the people, the masses in the middle, are saying.
It’s just like republican / democrat counts: Good lord man, there have ALWAYS been more dems, but repubs win because there are more conservatives than liberals. this is WHY you are wrong. it is the LOGIC of why you are wrong. if dems always voted dem, we’d never have a repub president… if dems ran non-liberal candidates who governed int he middle – they’d have bill clinton – who got his dick sucked in the oval office and still held the middle… it is an indictment of leftism. That is the logic.
Jon I’m not against ANY of your programs IF they are paid for… which means you have work friom within the same budget as all the other wants and action items, and make the best argument.
- if you can convince people to pay more taxes GREAT.
- if you can convince people to not fight wars to save money GREAT.
but IF you can’t convince them, then you need to not get your action items fulfilled, deficit spending is the last refuge of scumbags on both sides of the aisles.
Let go of deficit spending man, so we can be friends.
JTM.
Its the same problem all over the world. Loss of ethics. Chaos and television on a global scale.
Kind of a sad feeling. But since I am a stubborn optimist I will work hard to help change things even if its a lost case. I cannot let myself fall in to feeling that nothing can be done and neither can you.
JTM.
Its the same problem all over the world. Loss of ethics. Chaos and television on a global scale.
Kind of a sad feeling. But since I am a stubborn optimist I will work hard to help change things even if its a lost case. I cannot let myself fall in to feeling that nothing can be done and neither can you.
JTM.
Its the same problem all over the world. Loss of ethics. Chaos and television on a global scale.
Kind of a sad feeling. But since I am a stubborn optimist I will work hard to help change things even if its a lost case. I cannot let myself fall in to feeling that nothing can be done and neither can you.
JTM.
Its the same problem all over the world. Loss of ethics. Chaos and television on a global scale.
Kind of a sad feeling. But since I am a stubborn optimist I will work hard to help change things even if its a lost case. I cannot let myself fall in to feeling that nothing can be done and neither can you.
A lot of side-tracking from the question of whether fascism is a danger in the USA.
It is and has been ever since Reagan was elected. It really got a boost when GW Bush was president and we battened down the hatches and prepared to kill the ragheads no matter whether they had anything to do with the attacks.
And we must remember that beyond simply the love of uniform, sacrifice, discipline, and militarism of fascism, beyond the need for ‘enemies’ at home and abroad, fascist movements in Europe in the 1930s were largely corporatist, despising democracy and parliamentarianism, worshiping industrialists and bankers. Indeed the rich largely funded the rise of the fascist movements.
It was only the poor deluded unwashed who then, like today, donned their brown shirts and went to rallies to shout down reason and thought.
A lot of side-tracking from the question of whether fascism is a danger in the USA.
It is and has been ever since Reagan was elected. It really got a boost when GW Bush was president and we battened down the hatches and prepared to kill the ragheads no matter whether they had anything to do with the attacks.
And we must remember that beyond simply the love of uniform, sacrifice, discipline, and militarism of fascism, beyond the need for ‘enemies’ at home and abroad, fascist movements in Europe in the 1930s were largely corporatist, despising democracy and parliamentarianism, worshiping industrialists and bankers. Indeed the rich largely funded the rise of the fascist movements.
It was only the poor deluded unwashed who then, like today, donned their brown shirts and went to rallies to shout down reason and thought.
A lot of side-tracking from the question of whether fascism is a danger in the USA.
It is and has been ever since Reagan was elected. It really got a boost when GW Bush was president and we battened down the hatches and prepared to kill the ragheads no matter whether they had anything to do with the attacks.
And we must remember that beyond simply the love of uniform, sacrifice, discipline, and militarism of fascism, beyond the need for ‘enemies’ at home and abroad, fascist movements in Europe in the 1930s were largely corporatist, despising democracy and parliamentarianism, worshiping industrialists and bankers. Indeed the rich largely funded the rise of the fascist movements.
It was only the poor deluded unwashed who then, like today, donned their brown shirts and went to rallies to shout down reason and thought.
A lot of side-tracking from the question of whether fascism is a danger in the USA.
It is and has been ever since Reagan was elected. It really got a boost when GW Bush was president and we battened down the hatches and prepared to kill the ragheads no matter whether they had anything to do with the attacks.
And we must remember that beyond simply the love of uniform, sacrifice, discipline, and militarism of fascism, beyond the need for ‘enemies’ at home and abroad, fascist movements in Europe in the 1930s were largely corporatist, despising democracy and parliamentarianism, worshiping industrialists and bankers. Indeed the rich largely funded the rise of the fascist movements.
It was only the poor deluded unwashed who then, like today, donned their brown shirts and went to rallies to shout down reason and thought.
All of this is bickering will solved in one fell swoop with a Balanced Budget Amendment:
- In total the grand middle wants a a BBA, but in the particular – their specific favorite program they want that not cut. We need to be elitists here, we need to agree to pass a BBA, raise taxes as much as people will allow, and live on that block of cheese. Health care over wars, schools over prisons. Note of that will happen until the choices are hard.
- The economy will rock. The truth on taxes will be found out. LOOK at what has happened in Europe with the passing of the Euro – they have basically ended deficit spending, and for the first time they are in better economic shape after a downturn than we are…. when has that happened? They even ate it worse than us after the net bubble burst.
- it ends this notion that people have of being powerless to their government. Living within a budget will really mean, that when Bush/Obama wanted to spend $787B on a bailout, it means either immediate higher taxes, or cuts in some program, and the people will riot and win. What’s more losses at Fannie and Freddie will mean higher taxes or less schools, so those programs won’t ever grow out of control.
- It promotes free and fair trade. We aren’t BORROWING as much, so the taxes we raise are going to buy shit, not pay off the debt. This gives us more real money to spend over the long term.
- We can morally look into the eyes of the kids and KNOW we did them righteous. We aren’t trumping up some justifications for our actions and then dying (see Baby Boomers)… this is the great salvation for the over 60 crowd. Get some religion, and forever you’ll be lionized making tough choices, and not being the greediest generation EVER.
All of this is bickering will solved in one fell swoop with a Balanced Budget Amendment:
- In total the grand middle wants a a BBA, but in the particular – their specific favorite program they want that not cut. We need to be elitists here, we need to agree to pass a BBA, raise taxes as much as people will allow, and live on that block of cheese. Health care over wars, schools over prisons. Note of that will happen until the choices are hard.
- The economy will rock. The truth on taxes will be found out. LOOK at what has happened in Europe with the passing of the Euro – they have basically ended deficit spending, and for the first time they are in better economic shape after a downturn than we are…. when has that happened? They even ate it worse than us after the net bubble burst.
- it ends this notion that people have of being powerless to their government. Living within a budget will really mean, that when Bush/Obama wanted to spend $787B on a bailout, it means either immediate higher taxes, or cuts in some program, and the people will riot and win. What’s more losses at Fannie and Freddie will mean higher taxes or less schools, so those programs won’t ever grow out of control.
- It promotes free and fair trade. We aren’t BORROWING as much, so the taxes we raise are going to buy shit, not pay off the debt. This gives us more real money to spend over the long term.
- We can morally look into the eyes of the kids and KNOW we did them righteous. We aren’t trumping up some justifications for our actions and then dying (see Baby Boomers)… this is the great salvation for the over 60 crowd. Get some religion, and forever you’ll be lionized making tough choices, and not being the greediest generation EVER.
“Exercising 2nd Amendment rights in a right-to-carry state != brownshirt.
But I fully accept that a lot of people don’t think that the 2nd Amendment should exist and freak-the-fuck-right-out when confronted with it’s existence.”
The first sentence is true, in and of itself. But I’m not a fool, and I know what it means when people show up with semi-automatic rifles slung over their shoulders at political rallies. I know what message they’re sending.
Do they wear these huge rifles to church?
Do they wear them to their kids’ little league games?
Do they wear them to work?
Do they wear them to a movie theater?
Do they wear them when they go jogging?
As far as “freak-the-fuck-right-out,” that’s the perfect description for the “OMG SCARY BLACK MUSLIM TERRORIST SOCIALISM GAY MARRIAGE OMG OMG OMG!” crowd.
“Exercising 2nd Amendment rights in a right-to-carry state != brownshirt.
But I fully accept that a lot of people don’t think that the 2nd Amendment should exist and freak-the-fuck-right-out when confronted with it’s existence.”
The first sentence is true, in and of itself. But I’m not a fool, and I know what it means when people show up with semi-automatic rifles slung over their shoulders at political rallies. I know what message they’re sending.
Do they wear these huge rifles to church?
Do they wear them to their kids’ little league games?
Do they wear them to work?
Do they wear them to a movie theater?
Do they wear them when they go jogging?
As far as “freak-the-fuck-right-out,” that’s the perfect description for the “OMG SCARY BLACK MUSLIM TERRORIST SOCIALISM GAY MARRIAGE OMG OMG OMG!” crowd.
“Exercising 2nd Amendment rights in a right-to-carry state != brownshirt.
But I fully accept that a lot of people don’t think that the 2nd Amendment should exist and freak-the-fuck-right-out when confronted with it’s existence.”
The first sentence is true, in and of itself. But I’m not a fool, and I know what it means when people show up with semi-automatic rifles slung over their shoulders at political rallies. I know what message they’re sending.
Do they wear these huge rifles to church?
Do they wear them to their kids’ little league games?
Do they wear them to work?
Do they wear them to a movie theater?
Do they wear them when they go jogging?
As far as “freak-the-fuck-right-out,” that’s the perfect description for the “OMG SCARY BLACK MUSLIM TERRORIST SOCIALISM GAY MARRIAGE OMG OMG OMG!” crowd.
“Exercising 2nd Amendment rights in a right-to-carry state != brownshirt.
But I fully accept that a lot of people don’t think that the 2nd Amendment should exist and freak-the-fuck-right-out when confronted with it’s existence.”
The first sentence is true, in and of itself. But I’m not a fool, and I know what it means when people show up with semi-automatic rifles slung over their shoulders at political rallies. I know what message they’re sending.
Do they wear these huge rifles to church?
Do they wear them to their kids’ little league games?
Do they wear them to work?
Do they wear them to a movie theater?
Do they wear them when they go jogging?
As far as “freak-the-fuck-right-out,” that’s the perfect description for the “OMG SCARY BLACK MUSLIM TERRORIST SOCIALISM GAY MARRIAGE OMG OMG OMG!” crowd.
Dan you are right… the dude with a gun is sending a message. “I have lots of guns and there’s only so much I’ll put up with.” It is a giant warning sign, “WARNING: I may be stable/unstable and but I’m certainly getting pissed off.”
Dan, I get it. But the other bigger message is just as clear. There’s a reason we have 300M guns and tens of millions of NRA members. There’s a reason historically, we have a state motto like, “don’t tread on me” or that we all know the phrase, “live free or die” or any other nice romantic message/warning… those don’t mean, “Canada don’t you dare attack.”
Ultimately, we are a collection of individuals /states more concerned with being left alone to do what we want, than adhering to some sick moral code some egghead asshat dreamed up.
This country was formed loosely precisely because it was the ONLY way to pull it together. Don’t be surprised that fear of being lashed to tight leads to guns sales.
Thats the bigger more important message. If some tea party dude goes Rambo-idiot, like that woman hating fucko in Pennsylvania, it’ll be tragic and disgusting – but I’ll shake my head and say, “stop provoking those guys,” because government run health care isn’t about freedom, it is about control.
If the federal government can’t act without maintaining state sovereignty I expect it is only going to get worse… live and let live man.
Dan you are right… the dude with a gun is sending a message. “I have lots of guns and there’s only so much I’ll put up with.” It is a giant warning sign, “WARNING: I may be stable/unstable and but I’m certainly getting pissed off.”
Dan, I get it. But the other bigger message is just as clear. There’s a reason we have 300M guns and tens of millions of NRA members. There’s a reason historically, we have a state motto like, “don’t tread on me” or that we all know the phrase, “live free or die” or any other nice romantic message/warning… those don’t mean, “Canada don’t you dare attack.”
Ultimately, we are a collection of individuals /states more concerned with being left alone to do what we want, than adhering to some sick moral code some egghead asshat dreamed up.
This country was formed loosely precisely because it was the ONLY way to pull it together. Don’t be surprised that fear of being lashed to tight leads to guns sales.
Thats the bigger more important message. If some tea party dude goes Rambo-idiot, like that woman hating fucko in Pennsylvania, it’ll be tragic and disgusting – but I’ll shake my head and say, “stop provoking those guys,” because government run health care isn’t about freedom, it is about control.
If the federal government can’t act without maintaining state sovereignty I expect it is only going to get worse… live and let live man.
Dan you are right… the dude with a gun is sending a message. “I have lots of guns and there’s only so much I’ll put up with.” It is a giant warning sign, “WARNING: I may be stable/unstable and but I’m certainly getting pissed off.”
Dan, I get it. But the other bigger message is just as clear. There’s a reason we have 300M guns and tens of millions of NRA members. There’s a reason historically, we have a state motto like, “don’t tread on me” or that we all know the phrase, “live free or die” or any other nice romantic message/warning… those don’t mean, “Canada don’t you dare attack.”
Ultimately, we are a collection of individuals /states more concerned with being left alone to do what we want, than adhering to some sick moral code some egghead asshat dreamed up.
This country was formed loosely precisely because it was the ONLY way to pull it together. Don’t be surprised that fear of being lashed to tight leads to guns sales.
Thats the bigger more important message. If some tea party dude goes Rambo-idiot, like that woman hating fucko in Pennsylvania, it’ll be tragic and disgusting – but I’ll shake my head and say, “stop provoking those guys,” because government run health care isn’t about freedom, it is about control.
If the federal government can’t act without maintaining state sovereignty I expect it is only going to get worse… live and let live man.
Dan you are right… the dude with a gun is sending a message. “I have lots of guns and there’s only so much I’ll put up with.” It is a giant warning sign, “WARNING: I may be stable/unstable and but I’m certainly getting pissed off.”
Dan, I get it. But the other bigger message is just as clear. There’s a reason we have 300M guns and tens of millions of NRA members. There’s a reason historically, we have a state motto like, “don’t tread on me” or that we all know the phrase, “live free or die” or any other nice romantic message/warning… those don’t mean, “Canada don’t you dare attack.”
Ultimately, we are a collection of individuals /states more concerned with being left alone to do what we want, than adhering to some sick moral code some egghead asshat dreamed up.
This country was formed loosely precisely because it was the ONLY way to pull it together. Don’t be surprised that fear of being lashed to tight leads to guns sales.
Thats the bigger more important message. If some tea party dude goes Rambo-idiot, like that woman hating fucko in Pennsylvania, it’ll be tragic and disgusting – but I’ll shake my head and say, “stop provoking those guys,” because government run health care isn’t about freedom, it is about control.
If the federal government can’t act without maintaining state sovereignty I expect it is only going to get worse… live and let live man.
“I’ll shake my head and say, “stop provoking those guys,” because government run health care isn’t about freedom, it is about control.”
Yes it is and one thing big enough to take on big corporations who are controlling us is big government. Our government at its best is a government of the people. At its worst it is the best justice money can buy. Right now it’s begin bought by the very individuals you shill for.
Provoking these guys? PROVOKING THESE GUYS? (was that loud enough?). You haven’t seen provocation yet. My intuition is you will in September.
You want people to show up at rallies with guns? Fine. We’ll show up with flowers… and cut up our credit cards and stuff them down the barrels. You want to shill for big boss, fine? We’ll eat the seed corn.
“I’ll shake my head and say, “stop provoking those guys,” because government run health care isn’t about freedom, it is about control.”
Yes it is and one thing big enough to take on big corporations who are controlling us is big government. Our government at its best is a government of the people. At its worst it is the best justice money can buy. Right now it’s begin bought by the very individuals you shill for.
Provoking these guys? PROVOKING THESE GUYS? (was that loud enough?). You haven’t seen provocation yet. My intuition is you will in September.
You want people to show up at rallies with guns? Fine. We’ll show up with flowers… and cut up our credit cards and stuff them down the barrels. You want to shill for big boss, fine? We’ll eat the seed corn.
“I’ll shake my head and say, “stop provoking those guys,” because government run health care isn’t about freedom, it is about control.”
Yes it is and one thing big enough to take on big corporations who are controlling us is big government. Our government at its best is a government of the people. At its worst it is the best justice money can buy. Right now it’s begin bought by the very individuals you shill for.
Provoking these guys? PROVOKING THESE GUYS? (was that loud enough?). You haven’t seen provocation yet. My intuition is you will in September.
You want people to show up at rallies with guns? Fine. We’ll show up with flowers… and cut up our credit cards and stuff them down the barrels. You want to shill for big boss, fine? We’ll eat the seed corn.
“I’ll shake my head and say, “stop provoking those guys,” because government run health care isn’t about freedom, it is about control.”
Yes it is and one thing big enough to take on big corporations who are controlling us is big government. Our government at its best is a government of the people. At its worst it is the best justice money can buy. Right now it’s begin bought by the very individuals you shill for.
Provoking these guys? PROVOKING THESE GUYS? (was that loud enough?). You haven’t seen provocation yet. My intuition is you will in September.
You want people to show up at rallies with guns? Fine. We’ll show up with flowers… and cut up our credit cards and stuff them down the barrels. You want to shill for big boss, fine? We’ll eat the seed corn.
len, if your heart is full of love, just give the middle what it wants. no more. no less. that’s unconditional love.
the middle isn’t the guys with guns. why waste your time provoking the the far right? just super-quick serve the middle 60%. let the 20% on left and the 20% on right go screw.
that’s love.
len, if your heart is full of love, just give the middle what it wants. no more. no less. that’s unconditional love.
the middle isn’t the guys with guns. why waste your time provoking the the far right? just super-quick serve the middle 60%. let the 20% on left and the 20% on right go screw.
that’s love.
len, if your heart is full of love, just give the middle what it wants. no more. no less. that’s unconditional love.
the middle isn’t the guys with guns. why waste your time provoking the the far right? just super-quick serve the middle 60%. let the 20% on left and the 20% on right go screw.
that’s love.
len, if your heart is full of love, just give the middle what it wants. no more. no less. that’s unconditional love.
the middle isn’t the guys with guns. why waste your time provoking the the far right? just super-quick serve the middle 60%. let the 20% on left and the 20% on right go screw.
that’s love.
I find it funny that the liberals here are so upset that some nut jobs are calling our president Hitler. Where was the outrage when the previous president was routinely called the same or worse?
I think the pro-gun guy on Hardball’s point is that no new laws need to be created. The secret service will determine where guns can be allowed in order to keep the president protected. If it’s okay with the secret service then what is the problem?
I find it funny that the liberals here are so upset that some nut jobs are calling our president Hitler. Where was the outrage when the previous president was routinely called the same or worse?
I think the pro-gun guy on Hardball’s point is that no new laws need to be created. The secret service will determine where guns can be allowed in order to keep the president protected. If it’s okay with the secret service then what is the problem?
I find it funny that the liberals here are so upset that some nut jobs are calling our president Hitler. Where was the outrage when the previous president was routinely called the same or worse?
I think the pro-gun guy on Hardball’s point is that no new laws need to be created. The secret service will determine where guns can be allowed in order to keep the president protected. If it’s okay with the secret service then what is the problem?
Gordon- This is a very good point.
Gordon- This is a very good point.
Gordon- This is a very good point.
Because it is pure intimidation, nothing more and nothing less. Yet.
We don’t have to go too far back to remember the Bunds. Once started, it’s a disease that is hard to root out.
Because it is pure intimidation, nothing more and nothing less. Yet.
We don’t have to go too far back to remember the Bunds. Once started, it’s a disease that is hard to root out.
Because it is pure intimidation, nothing more and nothing less. Yet.
We don’t have to go too far back to remember the Bunds. Once started, it’s a disease that is hard to root out.
Because it is pure intimidation, nothing more and nothing less. Yet.
We don’t have to go too far back to remember the Bunds. Once started, it’s a disease that is hard to root out.
Good gods len, that was awesome.
Good gods len, that was awesome.
Good gods len, that was awesome.
Good gods len, that was awesome.
You can tell where people live from the comments here. I’m in rural Arizona, not far from McCain’s house (6-7mi. as the drone flies).
Open carry is something I see every day at my crappy retail job. No one makes a big deal out of it. Personally I carry a decent knife most everywhere but work (company policy), mainly because I have a preference of melee over ranged combat in self-defense situations. Besides the fact I had to sell my 9mm and reloading equipment during a period of unemployment.
What to know the fastest way to tell if someone who’s open carrying is a nut-job or not? Ask them about the gun they have. It’s a simple to say something like “who makes that, I’ve been looking for a good pistol?” The answer will pretty much tip you off to what kind of person they are.
You can tell where people live from the comments here. I’m in rural Arizona, not far from McCain’s house (6-7mi. as the drone flies).
Open carry is something I see every day at my crappy retail job. No one makes a big deal out of it. Personally I carry a decent knife most everywhere but work (company policy), mainly because I have a preference of melee over ranged combat in self-defense situations. Besides the fact I had to sell my 9mm and reloading equipment during a period of unemployment.
What to know the fastest way to tell if someone who’s open carrying is a nut-job or not? Ask them about the gun they have. It’s a simple to say something like “who makes that, I’ve been looking for a good pistol?” The answer will pretty much tip you off to what kind of person they are.
Kitty, how do the answers work out?
Kitty, how do the answers work out?
“The world will take all the US debt we want to sell it.”
That reminds me of the predatory lenders that told borrowers that home prices will always go up.
“The world will take all the US debt we want to sell it.”
That reminds me of the predatory lenders that told borrowers that home prices will always go up.
“The world will take all the US debt we want to sell it.”
That reminds me of the predatory lenders that told borrowers that home prices will always go up.
Apparently you were in a coma for a good bit of 2001-2006, because for most of that period, criticizing Bush was considered a clear case of treason and the screaming about it never stopped.
Apparently you were in a coma for a good bit of 2001-2006, because for most of that period, criticizing Bush was considered a clear case of treason and the screaming about it never stopped.
are you kidding? The few idiotic statements of Obama = Hitler pales in comparison to the criticism Bush received. And besides Fox News and a few others the MSM had no qualms about any of it. Instead they turned that Code Pink woman into a national celebrity. I think it is you that were not paying attention.
Dan you take things far too personally. Yelling Bush is a fascist, OK that’s your right. So is your being told you are not patriotic for not supporting a war… you’d get how that would happen, right? We’re not a nation of intellectuals, just cowboys.
So then Jon yells that guys with guns are fascists because they don’t want the government taking over health care… which is funny. Fighting back against government action = fascist. You see that right?
But then getting mad that somebody put a mustache on Obama… mad for what? Because they are traitors in the war against Afghanistan?
This whole conversation is silly. Dudes with guns are welcome, len needs to stop feeling intimidated… Hitler mustaches look just as good on Obama as they did on Bush. And protesting a war isn’t exactly “heroic,” even though the hippies want to pretend it is.
Fine, Morgan. We’ll send over a group of illegals to stand just outside your kid’s playground with guns. Let’s see how far you are willing to go to defend your rights to the incomparably insane.
You can never go wrong warning about resurgent fascism, Jon, and I think that if you see it rearing its head you should do just what you have done, sound the tocsin. I agree unreservedly that Nazism was anti-liberalism, but there are complications in applying that template to, as you put it, “Democrats [versus] Republicans.
The Nazis obviously borrowed from both sides, essentially attaching to anything that accrue to their main interest, a pseudo-religious belief in state power and might. From the Right they took nationalism, authoritarianism, militarism. From the Left they took socialism, and eugenics. (Their bizarre racialism was more home-grown.) But from beginning to end they were enemies of liberalism and universal rights.
So I guess the challenge today is to test the health of both liberalism and of fascist militancy. This is controversial, and frankly tentative, but I see the Democratic Party trending away from liberalism and more toward statist socialism and social control. That is worrying.
Finally, I would just point out that you probably can’t have fascism without, in addition to Hobsbwam’s preconditions, an authoritarian leader followed by lawmakers, judges and law enforcement personnel who will toe the line. That’s the only reason why my attention to the townhall gun-toters turned instead to the bystanding peace officers. As you asked, “Where Was the Secret Service?” For that matter, where is local enforcement when this stuff breaks out?
Maybe candidate Obama was right on Nob Hill: maybe Pennsylvanians really do cling to their guns. Yet evidently they consider themselves defenders of liberty, an anti-fascist and almost definitively liberal, concept. Still, I think they should be screened, and if necessary, tased and arrested. Free speech and free assembly don’t issue from the barrel of a gun, and since a town hall is a quintessential “open forum” for freedom of expression, proper time-place-and-manner restrictions do apply. And such a democratic forum is neither the time nor the place to protest in a manner that by its nature incites to violence. It’s nuts.
I suppose you can see that I’m in part recalling the battles against the Civil Rights Movement, a conflict characterized for the most part by nonviolent liberalism on the one side and, on the other, by actual reactionary fascism, with gun-brandishing, actual violence, strongmen in high office, legislative and judicial toadies and morally corrupt peace officers. As we all know, both Eisenhower and Kennedy were prepared to send in overwhelming force, something I’m open to doing now if this problem can’t be addressed constitutionally by e.g. local and state law enforcement and the Secret Service. Because we shouldn’t permit ourselves to be cowed into holding fewer of these town halls, but they’ve got to be safe and open, and obviously the POTUS must be protected from the nutters.
Right on, Hugo.
The ones that are just folks will usually (time permitting) talk your ear off.
And I haven’t met anyone open-carrying that I wouldn’t have a beer with. Nice folks all across.
I’m sure there’s some OC nutjobs out there, but I haven’t met them coming into retail hell.
Both sides are not misbehaving in the same way. Liberals showing up to Bush rallies in mildly impolite T-shirts — arrested. Reactionaries showing up to Obama events carrying high-powered killing machines — politely tolerated and publicly encouraged by media talking heads.
I think the brownshirt element are out there, but haven’t really been galvanized yet. They aren’t yet marching in uniforms. Until then, I think we have time for the public mood to shift and dispel some of the paranoia. Eventually, if the sky obviously isn’t falling and people get jobs again, their outrage will lose its edge.
Some part of me wants to know that every open carry that shows up at a POTUS meeting has a sharpshooter holding a bead on him/her the entire time of the meeting. I have too much memory of the assassinations of JFK, RFK and King and the national trauma that ensued to have any sympathy for the theoretical rights bought and paid for by NRA and gun lobby contributions to congress.
I really want to know how congress feels about open carry in the Senate or House: oh wait, I think a few Puerto Rican nationalists put an end to that, still I love E.J. Dionne Jr’s take in the Columbia Tribune that starts:
“Isn’t it time to dismantle the metal detectors, send the guards at the doors away and allow Americans to exercise their Second Amendment rights by being free to carry their firearms into the nation’s Capitol?
I’ve been studying the deep thoughts of senators who regularly express their undying loyalty to the National Rifle Association and decided they should practice what they preach. They tell us that the best defense against crime is an armed citizenry and that laws restricting guns don’t stop violence. If they believe that, why don’t they live by it?” Why not walk the walk they keep voting for others he asks, quite rightly.
http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009
/aug/09/its-high-time-for-guns-in-congress/
(cut and paste to get a full URL).
I do think it amusingly hypocritical of strong NRA advocates to be strong Homeland Security supporters, in the name of restricting those gun totin’ te’rrists.
But, consistency is the bug bear… etc.
ken, he does. have a bead on him. what more he knows it. and still does it. its important to him. its legal. and his message is valid.
im in favor of guns in congress, if only for the spectacle. its already like professional wrestling. frankly im in favor of anything that further makes congressman look like actors, monkeys, stooges, perverts, criminals, or any other thing that paints them in bad light. a government not trusted, is my favorite kind of government.
A government not trusted until the next time we’re told that we have to invade an oil-rich country in the name of Freedom Fries.
Then our trust will know no bounds again, and Faux News will scream themselves hoarse any time anybody questions the next Strangelove’s motives.
So now you seem to be saying that you can’t tell which ones are nutjobs by asking them about their guns, because none of them are nutjobs?
there’s nothing wrong with a little intimidation…
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574361071968458430.html
Dude we got bombed, we were gonna hit somebody back. And you after all hooked on oil.
Your honesty that we invaded Iraq for oil is remarkable and nauseating.
Your honesty that we invaded Iraq for oil is remarkable and nauseating.
Your honesty that we invaded Iraq for oil is remarkable and nauseating.
Your honesty that we invaded Iraq for oil is remarkable and nauseating.
Dan, with respect, how do you conjure that the USA has benefitted from Iraqi oil following the invasion? I am at a loss here. Should I be so?
Dan, with respect, how do you conjure that the USA has benefitted from Iraqi oil following the invasion? I am at a loss here. Should I be so?
Dan, with respect, how do you conjure that the USA has benefitted from Iraqi oil following the invasion? I am at a loss here. Should I be so?
Dan, with respect, how do you conjure that the USA has benefitted from Iraqi oil following the invasion? I am at a loss here. Should I be so?
I agree with much of what you say but not the corporatism part. First, I’ll set Mussolini aside, because he was really more of a clown than anything. If Hitler had never appeared, Mussolini would be only a footnote. Hitler certainly pursued industrialists’ money, and it was certainly important to the party in its early years, but it wasn’t just that money that kept them going. Certain wealthy individuals also made crucial contributions at crucial times.
And one thing is for sure, Hitler didn’t give a damn about his donors or “corporatism.” Once he was firmly in power, he had some incentives to keep the titans of industry reasonably happy, but when he needed something, he simply told them, “This is what you will do.” When they disobeyed, off to Theresienstadt they went, just like anybody else.
Some of them made fabulous fortunes from Hitler’s regime, but it was because they were willing to pursue any line of business, no matter how despicable.
Corporations were mere tools to Hitler, like everything and everyone else.
That’s the lesson of fascism, the same lesson of communism, capitalism or any other ideology born out of chaos and misery: revolutions eat their young. Once the Dear Leader has his hands on the levers of power, you’re screwed.
That is why I was terrified when Cheney talked about measures to implement martial law when he (and his puppet) said so, for reasons he defined, and for as long as he said was necessary.
And as far as I know, Obama still carries that Enabling Act around in his own pocket.
I agree with much of what you say but not the corporatism part. First, I’ll set Mussolini aside, because he was really more of a clown than anything. If Hitler had never appeared, Mussolini would be only a footnote. Hitler certainly pursued industrialists’ money, and it was certainly important to the party in its early years, but it wasn’t just that money that kept them going. Certain wealthy individuals also made crucial contributions at crucial times.
And one thing is for sure, Hitler didn’t give a damn about his donors or “corporatism.” Once he was firmly in power, he had some incentives to keep the titans of industry reasonably happy, but when he needed something, he simply told them, “This is what you will do.” When they disobeyed, off to Theresienstadt they went, just like anybody else.
Some of them made fabulous fortunes from Hitler’s regime, but it was because they were willing to pursue any line of business, no matter how despicable.
Corporations were mere tools to Hitler, like everything and everyone else.
That’s the lesson of fascism, the same lesson of communism, capitalism or any other ideology born out of chaos and misery: revolutions eat their young. Once the Dear Leader has his hands on the levers of power, you’re screwed.
That is why I was terrified when Cheney talked about measures to implement martial law when he (and his puppet) said so, for reasons he defined, and for as long as he said was necessary.
And as far as I know, Obama still carries that Enabling Act around in his own pocket.
I agree with much of what you say but not the corporatism part. First, I’ll set Mussolini aside, because he was really more of a clown than anything. If Hitler had never appeared, Mussolini would be only a footnote. Hitler certainly pursued industrialists’ money, and it was certainly important to the party in its early years, but it wasn’t just that money that kept them going. Certain wealthy individuals also made crucial contributions at crucial times.
And one thing is for sure, Hitler didn’t give a damn about his donors or “corporatism.” Once he was firmly in power, he had some incentives to keep the titans of industry reasonably happy, but when he needed something, he simply told them, “This is what you will do.” When they disobeyed, off to Theresienstadt they went, just like anybody else.
Some of them made fabulous fortunes from Hitler’s regime, but it was because they were willing to pursue any line of business, no matter how despicable.
Corporations were mere tools to Hitler, like everything and everyone else.
That’s the lesson of fascism, the same lesson of communism, capitalism or any other ideology born out of chaos and misery: revolutions eat their young. Once the Dear Leader has his hands on the levers of power, you’re screwed.
That is why I was terrified when Cheney talked about measures to implement martial law when he (and his puppet) said so, for reasons he defined, and for as long as he said was necessary.
And as far as I know, Obama still carries that Enabling Act around in his own pocket.
I agree with much of what you say but not the corporatism part. First, I’ll set Mussolini aside, because he was really more of a clown than anything. If Hitler had never appeared, Mussolini would be only a footnote. Hitler certainly pursued industrialists’ money, and it was certainly important to the party in its early years, but it wasn’t just that money that kept them going. Certain wealthy individuals also made crucial contributions at crucial times.
And one thing is for sure, Hitler didn’t give a damn about his donors or “corporatism.” Once he was firmly in power, he had some incentives to keep the titans of industry reasonably happy, but when he needed something, he simply told them, “This is what you will do.” When they disobeyed, off to Theresienstadt they went, just like anybody else.
Some of them made fabulous fortunes from Hitler’s regime, but it was because they were willing to pursue any line of business, no matter how despicable.
Corporations were mere tools to Hitler, like everything and everyone else.
That’s the lesson of fascism, the same lesson of communism, capitalism or any other ideology born out of chaos and misery: revolutions eat their young. Once the Dear Leader has his hands on the levers of power, you’re screwed.
That is why I was terrified when Cheney talked about measures to implement martial law when he (and his puppet) said so, for reasons he defined, and for as long as he said was necessary.
And as far as I know, Obama still carries that Enabling Act around in his own pocket.
We didn’t. I guess you could say that’s the lesson, except that it’s not really a “lesson” to learn that seizing another country for its resources is good only if you can make it work.
What I said was that the reason we invaded was oil. Or at any rate, that Morgan admits that was the reason.
We didn’t. I guess you could say that’s the lesson, except that it’s not really a “lesson” to learn that seizing another country for its resources is good only if you can make it work.
What I said was that the reason we invaded was oil. Or at any rate, that Morgan admits that was the reason.
We didn’t. I guess you could say that’s the lesson, except that it’s not really a “lesson” to learn that seizing another country for its resources is good only if you can make it work.
What I said was that the reason we invaded was oil. Or at any rate, that Morgan admits that was the reason.
We didn’t. I guess you could say that’s the lesson, except that it’s not really a “lesson” to learn that seizing another country for its resources is good only if you can make it work.
What I said was that the reason we invaded was oil. Or at any rate, that Morgan admits that was the reason.
Hugo,
Failure to pull off an objective doesn’t negate intent, it just reinforces how badly thought out the plan was.
At this point it is fairly transparent that the Bush Admin’s (i.e. Chaney/Rummy/Wolfowitz) objective was to stabilize US presence in the Middle East by invading the most “vulnerable” appearing nation we could manufacture a cause to go after. While Oil wasn’t the immediate initial goal, imperial presence was, that objective was in turn driven by the Energy/Oil lobby.
The ultimate drivers were oil, and a permanent US presence in the region (US controlled military bases) similar to what we tried with the Saudi’s. The failure to “benefit” was the fault of the overreach, and serious stupidity of trying to wage two wars at the same time massive tax cutes were being made.
Hugo,
Failure to pull off an objective doesn’t negate intent, it just reinforces how badly thought out the plan was.
At this point it is fairly transparent that the Bush Admin’s (i.e. Chaney/Rummy/Wolfowitz) objective was to stabilize US presence in the Middle East by invading the most “vulnerable” appearing nation we could manufacture a cause to go after. While Oil wasn’t the immediate initial goal, imperial presence was, that objective was in turn driven by the Energy/Oil lobby.
The ultimate drivers were oil, and a permanent US presence in the region (US controlled military bases) similar to what we tried with the Saudi’s. The failure to “benefit” was the fault of the overreach, and serious stupidity of trying to wage two wars at the same time massive tax cutes were being made.
Hugo,
Failure to pull off an objective doesn’t negate intent, it just reinforces how badly thought out the plan was.
At this point it is fairly transparent that the Bush Admin’s (i.e. Chaney/Rummy/Wolfowitz) objective was to stabilize US presence in the Middle East by invading the most “vulnerable” appearing nation we could manufacture a cause to go after. While Oil wasn’t the immediate initial goal, imperial presence was, that objective was in turn driven by the Energy/Oil lobby.
The ultimate drivers were oil, and a permanent US presence in the region (US controlled military bases) similar to what we tried with the Saudi’s. The failure to “benefit” was the fault of the overreach, and serious stupidity of trying to wage two wars at the same time massive tax cutes were being made.
Dan,
I agree with you that Hitler was a gift to the industrialists, and I admit having underplayed that on account of its being a complicating factor. It complexifies, especially, his signal use of socialism. It seems that he grabbed at anything that accrue to his power as Leader.
Also, I understated the extent to which Nazism reverenced and even worshiped the power of the state and its Leader. Nazism has been seen, for example by mature scholars, as a power cult, an example of a cookbook civil religion. I agree with that analysis, though frankly I haven’t enough German to adjucate it or to partipate.
I’m sorry that Mr. Cheney frightened you. As I never took him as seriously as others have done, I was deaf to it at the time. Certainly he did challenge our civil rights and made no bones about doing so. He was the Heavy.
Ken,
I think I get what you’re saying about the distinction between intent and execution, but notional intentionality is so much more difficult to prove in the court of History.
Dan,
I agree with you that Hitler was a gift to the industrialists, and I admit having underplayed that on account of its being a complicating factor. It complexifies, especially, his signal use of socialism. It seems that he grabbed at anything that accrue to his power as Leader.
Also, I understated the extent to which Nazism reverenced and even worshiped the power of the state and its Leader. Nazism has been seen, for example by mature scholars, as a power cult, an example of a cookbook civil religion. I agree with that analysis, though frankly I haven’t enough German to adjucate it or to partipate.
I’m sorry that Mr. Cheney frightened you. As I never took him as seriously as others have done, I was deaf to it at the time. Certainly he did challenge our civil rights and made no bones about doing so. He was the Heavy.
Ken,
I think I get what you’re saying about the distinction between intent and execution, but notional intentionality is so much more difficult to prove in the court of History.
Hey Jon,
Remember during the 2008 election when John McCain nominated Sarah Palin as his VP and Nate Silver’s site showed McCain having a 69% chance of winning?
You kept insisting that this was only a temporary spike – and you were right – and that it meant nothing – and on that you were wrong. Very wrong.
But I smelled it. I smelled it then. This epiphany you’ve just now had. The spike was too sudden and too large to be explained by the nomination of a woman for VP. There was something more there. Something primal.
I wrote something then on this blog. I wrote – “be afraid, be very afraid”. I wrote that this was not a temporary thing. That this was a sign of anti-progressive and dangerous forces rearing their heads. Forces to watch out for. That despite the optimistic energy that got Obama elected, people should put on their non-optimistic hat and try to see what else is happening around them.
You replied to my comments with “there is nothing to fear but fear itself” and went on with the Obama frenzy – unwilling to entertain my voice that said there was an opposing force gathering. A large, dangerous force.
Well, I’m glad you’ve finally come to the same epiphany as me. Albeit a year later.
Who knows, the same might happen on the copyright/free digital copying issue too… you have moved quite a bit on that front.
And it’s what brings me back to this blog – seeing that people can change their opinions.
Hey Jon,
Remember during the 2008 election when John McCain nominated Sarah Palin as his VP and Nate Silver’s site showed McCain having a 69% chance of winning?
You kept insisting that this was only a temporary spike – and you were right – and that it meant nothing – and on that you were wrong. Very wrong.
But I smelled it. I smelled it then. This epiphany you’ve just now had. The spike was too sudden and too large to be explained by the nomination of a woman for VP. There was something more there. Something primal.
I wrote something then on this blog. I wrote – “be afraid, be very afraid”. I wrote that this was not a temporary thing. That this was a sign of anti-progressive and dangerous forces rearing their heads. Forces to watch out for. That despite the optimistic energy that got Obama elected, people should put on their non-optimistic hat and try to see what else is happening around them.
You replied to my comments with “there is nothing to fear but fear itself” and went on with the Obama frenzy – unwilling to entertain my voice that said there was an opposing force gathering. A large, dangerous force.
Well, I’m glad you’ve finally come to the same epiphany as me. Albeit a year later.
Who knows, the same might happen on the copyright/free digital copying issue too… you have moved quite a bit on that front.
And it’s what brings me back to this blog – seeing that people can change their opinions.
Armand, I remember when you wrote that. And yes, you were right.
None other than Hunter Thompson observed that when GHW Bush selected Dan Quayle as his running mate it closed a 17- or 18-point gender gap overnight. Overnight. Thompson’s implication was that women voters had no time to learn anything of Quayle, but only to see photos and footage of him on the evening news. As he was so handsome, it was a slam-dunk.
Gawd, it’s disgusting, but sometimes these poll swings are real and sometimes they’re not. I don’t know which is worse, the illusory or the true.
Armand, I remember when you wrote that. And yes, you were right.
None other than Hunter Thompson observed that when GHW Bush selected Dan Quayle as his running mate it closed a 17- or 18-point gender gap overnight. Overnight. Thompson’s implication was that women voters had no time to learn anything of Quayle, but only to see photos and footage of him on the evening news. As he was so handsome, it was a slam-dunk.
Gawd, it’s disgusting, but sometimes these poll swings are real and sometimes they’re not. I don’t know which is worse, the illusory or the true.
Armand, I remember when you wrote that. And yes, you were right.
None other than Hunter Thompson observed that when GHW Bush selected Dan Quayle as his running mate it closed a 17- or 18-point gender gap overnight. Overnight. Thompson’s implication was that women voters had no time to learn anything of Quayle, but only to see photos and footage of him on the evening news. As he was so handsome, it was a slam-dunk.
Gawd, it’s disgusting, but sometimes these poll swings are real and sometimes they’re not. I don’t know which is worse, the illusory or the true.