Energy Tax
Jeff Zeleny reports this morning that President Obama promised Centrist Democratic Senators that “he will think about his proposal to raise taxes on gas and oil producers, which has evoked an outcry among small producers in gulf states.” It is very clear that the obvious solution to energy conservation through the oil and gas taxes that most developed countries have adopted, will be a political battle here.
So I have another solution that would be far more politically savvy and achieve the same ends–a tax on imported oil and gas. Since we import almost 60% of our oil, the import tax would raise a lot of revenue, encourage production from the small producers who have been capping wells because of falling prices, push consumers towards more fuel efficient cars and set a floor under energy prices so that wind, solar and geothermal could be immediately price competitive. The political benefit would be that Blue Dog Democrats and Republicans alike in 0il and gas producing states like Texas, Louisiana, Colorado, California and Montana would find it hard to vote against such a tax. I know Exxon and Chevron would lobby hard against this, but they are hardly the partners Mitch McConnell and John Boehner want to be fronting.
What am I missing?
Jon, what you’re missing is the outcry over “protectionism,” and the fear that such a move would cause other countries to impose import duties on our exports. Remember that during the Depression, the US imposed import duties on a number of products which led other countries to do the same. The result was a major reduction in global trade which caused the Depression to last much longer.
Other countries are already retaliating over the “Buy America” clause in the Stimulus Bill. And now Mexico is ready to impose duties on American products because of the “no Mexican truckers in the U.S.” being pushed forward.
Protectionism reduces trade and we cannot afford that loss of trade dollars and accompanying jobs.
If a tax is needed to raise money, then why not tax the refineries? Most refineries, I believe, are owned by big oil companies who can afford to pay the tax…and small oil producers and trade won’t be hurt.
Jon, what you’re missing is the outcry over “protectionism,” and the fear that such a move would cause other countries to impose import duties on our exports. Remember that during the Depression, the US imposed import duties on a number of products which led other countries to do the same. The result was a major reduction in global trade which caused the Depression to last much longer.
Other countries are already retaliating over the “Buy America” clause in the Stimulus Bill. And now Mexico is ready to impose duties on American products because of the “no Mexican truckers in the U.S.” being pushed forward.
Protectionism reduces trade and we cannot afford that loss of trade dollars and accompanying jobs.
If a tax is needed to raise money, then why not tax the refineries? Most refineries, I believe, are owned by big oil companies who can afford to pay the tax…and small oil producers and trade won’t be hurt.
How about it violating WTO agreements? Retaliatory tariffs? But, having some local oil royalty interests, I like the idea.
How about it violating WTO agreements? Retaliatory tariffs? But, having some local oil royalty interests, I like the idea.
Perhaps you’re missing the salutary effect on US domestic manufacturing and corrosive effect on its imperial project. America’s colonial clients in East, Central & Southwest Asia may find protective tariffs intolerably distressing to their export oriented industries that US imperial managers have agreed to as the price of our diplomatic, military and political hegemony.
If so, they can end these arrangements, invite our soldiers to leave and we can rebuild our domestic manufacturing to meet the demands formerly satisfied by our imperial clients.
Perhaps you’re missing the salutary effect on US domestic manufacturing and corrosive effect on its imperial project. America’s colonial clients in East, Central & Southwest Asia may find protective tariffs intolerably distressing to their export oriented industries that US imperial managers have agreed to as the price of our diplomatic, military and political hegemony.
If so, they can end these arrangements, invite our soldiers to leave and we can rebuild our domestic manufacturing to meet the demands formerly satisfied by our imperial clients.
Just how will the oil producers “retaliate”? We don’t make much any more so finished goods are out. Raw materials and food are our main products. The oil producers don’t use that much in raw materials (that’s why they export their oil. The latter is like the farmer who tried to break his mule of eating to save money. As soon as he was successful, it died. Actually, increased tariffs on food would be of great help to third world countries who cannot compete with our state subsidized mega-agriculture.
Just how will the oil producers “retaliate”? We don’t make much any more so finished goods are out. Raw materials and food are our main products. The oil producers don’t use that much in raw materials (that’s why they export their oil. The latter is like the farmer who tried to break his mule of eating to save money. As soon as he was successful, it died. Actually, increased tariffs on food would be of great help to third world countries who cannot compete with our state subsidized mega-agriculture.
Just how will the oil producers “retaliate”? We don’t make much any more so finished goods are out. Raw materials and food are our main products. The oil producers don’t use that much in raw materials (that’s why they export their oil. The latter is like the farmer who tried to break his mule of eating to save money. As soon as he was successful, it died. Actually, increased tariffs on food would be of great help to third world countries who cannot compete with our state subsidized mega-agriculture.
Prepare for another Drill Baby Drill campaign here… This opens the door to more fights over offshore drilling, ANWR, and the rest.
In the end, it pushes off the bigger need to get us the heck off of oil period. Not just the stuff that comes from outside our borders.
And, BTW, you needn’t look to the other side of the world to find suppliers who will be furious over this. Look no further than our neighbors to the north, the Canadians who are actually our biggest oil suppliers might have a problem with this too. Particularly as they (in partnership with the US majors) begin ramping up tar sands mining, a symptom of our ever-deepening addiction.
Prepare for another Drill Baby Drill campaign here… This opens the door to more fights over offshore drilling, ANWR, and the rest.
In the end, it pushes off the bigger need to get us the heck off of oil period. Not just the stuff that comes from outside our borders.
And, BTW, you needn’t look to the other side of the world to find suppliers who will be furious over this. Look no further than our neighbors to the north, the Canadians who are actually our biggest oil suppliers might have a problem with this too. Particularly as they (in partnership with the US majors) begin ramping up tar sands mining, a symptom of our ever-deepening addiction.
Prepare for another Drill Baby Drill campaign here… This opens the door to more fights over offshore drilling, ANWR, and the rest.
In the end, it pushes off the bigger need to get us the heck off of oil period. Not just the stuff that comes from outside our borders.
And, BTW, you needn’t look to the other side of the world to find suppliers who will be furious over this. Look no further than our neighbors to the north, the Canadians who are actually our biggest oil suppliers might have a problem with this too. Particularly as they (in partnership with the US majors) begin ramping up tar sands mining, a symptom of our ever-deepening addiction.
The other issue is that an import tax will encourage depletion of US oil that much faster. Of course, this is an issue only for those who have a planning horizon longer than the time until the next election. That said, politics is the art of the possible, and if that’s what it takes to get the bill through, then goforit.
The other issue is that an import tax will encourage depletion of US oil that much faster. Of course, this is an issue only for those who have a planning horizon longer than the time until the next election. That said, politics is the art of the possible, and if that’s what it takes to get the bill through, then goforit.
The other issue is that an import tax will encourage depletion of US oil that much faster. Of course, this is an issue only for those who have a planning horizon longer than the time until the next election. That said, politics is the art of the possible, and if that’s what it takes to get the bill through, then goforit.
Jon, I believe there are now too many bilateral free trade agreements in place to raise import duties on oil. Most of those are not with oil nations, but some are. These treaties can (mostly) only be abrogated by war.
A flat tax on oil would be legal. Selecting imported oil for special treatment would probably be illegal.
Jon, I believe there are now too many bilateral free trade agreements in place to raise import duties on oil. Most of those are not with oil nations, but some are. These treaties can (mostly) only be abrogated by war.
A flat tax on oil would be legal. Selecting imported oil for special treatment would probably be illegal.
Jon, I believe there are now too many bilateral free trade agreements in place to raise import duties on oil. Most of those are not with oil nations, but some are. These treaties can (mostly) only be abrogated by war.
A flat tax on oil would be legal. Selecting imported oil for special treatment would probably be illegal.
If we have signed free trade agreements with oil producers then we must be even stupider than I thought. What do we sell to Saudi Arabia? Other than F-16s and other military toys.
If we have signed free trade agreements with oil producers then we must be even stupider than I thought. What do we sell to Saudi Arabia? Other than F-16s and other military toys.
If we have signed free trade agreements with oil producers then we must be even stupider than I thought. What do we sell to Saudi Arabia? Other than F-16s and other military toys.
If we have signed free trade agreements with oil producers then we must be even stupider than I thought. What do we sell to Saudi Arabia? Other than F-16s and other military toys.
We import a lot of oil from Canada and Mexico — NAFTA. Unclear why, apart from ideology, we couldn’t get a little protectionist towards some of the others.
We import a lot of oil from Canada and Mexico — NAFTA. Unclear why, apart from ideology, we couldn’t get a little protectionist towards some of the others.
We import a lot of oil from Canada and Mexico — NAFTA. Unclear why, apart from ideology, we couldn’t get a little protectionist towards some of the others.
We import a lot of oil from Canada and Mexico — NAFTA. Unclear why, apart from ideology, we couldn’t get a little protectionist towards some of the others.
Seth—
Mexico’s fields are well on their way to being tapped out. Canada makes up the difference with tar sands oil, which has 3X the CO2 emissions of typical petroleums and rips up one of North America’s biggest carbon sinks. It should not be considered an option if we are serious with dealing with global warming and setting up a real clean energy economy.
Seth—
Mexico’s fields are well on their way to being tapped out. Canada makes up the difference with tar sands oil, which has 3X the CO2 emissions of typical petroleums and rips up one of North America’s biggest carbon sinks. It should not be considered an option if we are serious with dealing with global warming and setting up a real clean energy economy.
Seth—
Mexico’s fields are well on their way to being tapped out. Canada makes up the difference with tar sands oil, which has 3X the CO2 emissions of typical petroleums and rips up one of North America’s biggest carbon sinks. It should not be considered an option if we are serious with dealing with global warming and setting up a real clean energy economy.
I know this is completely callow, but why aren’t we simply building a five or six dozen modern nuclear power-plants and having done with all of this legacy carbon-energy crap? At least nuclear waste stays where you put it when you’re done with it.
I know this is completely callow, but why aren’t we simply building a five or six dozen modern nuclear power-plants and having done with all of this legacy carbon-energy crap? At least nuclear waste stays where you put it when you’re done with it.
I know this is completely callow, but why aren’t we simply building a five or six dozen modern nuclear power-plants and having done with all of this legacy carbon-energy crap? At least nuclear waste stays where you put it when you’re done with it.
I know this is completely callow, but why aren’t we simply building a five or six dozen modern nuclear power-plants and having done with all of this legacy carbon-energy crap? At least nuclear waste stays where you put it when you’re done with it.
Says Josh, “if we are serious with dealing with global warming and setting up a real clean energy economy.” Some 6.5 billion humans assre steeped in and wedded to “life as we used to know it.” A few millions of them earn their sometimes outrageous livings from business as it used to be and still is for the most part. Those folks have lobbyists and legislators and even judges and heads of state who are “on their side,” as it were, in favor of keeping the petropredators happily in beer, skittles and perks through the rest of their lives. These folks know they can probably fight a pretty successful holding action to protect the “lifestyles to which they have become accustomed (and entitled) to.” Drill-baby-drillers will keep pushing their petrodrug on the rest of us, and there are many who of necessity or just convenience will not give a rat’s ass about the future of the planet or the species. Besides, there are not too many clliffs in site — things just get gradually worse, and people have amarvelousl capacity to adapt. Look at how we collectively are continuing to mostly eat and live under roofs, even in this interregnmum or whatever it is.
So my bet is that inertia, momentum, greed, self-satisfaction and other base human characteristics are going to trump any real grab for a healthier way of doing things. At least until a much larer chunk of humanity starts feeling some real pinches.
Says Josh, “if we are serious with dealing with global warming and setting up a real clean energy economy.” Some 6.5 billion humans assre steeped in and wedded to “life as we used to know it.” A few millions of them earn their sometimes outrageous livings from business as it used to be and still is for the most part. Those folks have lobbyists and legislators and even judges and heads of state who are “on their side,” as it were, in favor of keeping the petropredators happily in beer, skittles and perks through the rest of their lives. These folks know they can probably fight a pretty successful holding action to protect the “lifestyles to which they have become accustomed (and entitled) to.” Drill-baby-drillers will keep pushing their petrodrug on the rest of us, and there are many who of necessity or just convenience will not give a rat’s ass about the future of the planet or the species. Besides, there are not too many clliffs in site — things just get gradually worse, and people have amarvelousl capacity to adapt. Look at how we collectively are continuing to mostly eat and live under roofs, even in this interregnmum or whatever it is.
So my bet is that inertia, momentum, greed, self-satisfaction and other base human characteristics are going to trump any real grab for a healthier way of doing things. At least until a much larer chunk of humanity starts feeling some real pinches.
I have to agree with JTM, we do exhibit a remarkable ability to ignore our own involvement in these circumstances. Perhaps this tax solution would be more workable if we took Rachel’s flat tax idea to the next level by agreeing that everyone involved in the transaction accept a raise in taxes. Not just the importer, or the supplier, or the user.
The question in my mind is how would we go about selling the viability of this idea to the clamoring masses, the don’ttaxme upperclasses, the othercountry’s business classes, the don’tbothermeI’mwatchingtv on their asses?
Yep, I’m back to JTM.
I have to agree with JTM, we do exhibit a remarkable ability to ignore our own involvement in these circumstances. Perhaps this tax solution would be more workable if we took Rachel’s flat tax idea to the next level by agreeing that everyone involved in the transaction accept a raise in taxes. Not just the importer, or the supplier, or the user.
The question in my mind is how would we go about selling the viability of this idea to the clamoring masses, the don’ttaxme upperclasses, the othercountry’s business classes, the don’tbothermeI’mwatchingtv on their asses?
Yep, I’m back to JTM.
I have to agree with JTM, we do exhibit a remarkable ability to ignore our own involvement in these circumstances. Perhaps this tax solution would be more workable if we took Rachel’s flat tax idea to the next level by agreeing that everyone involved in the transaction accept a raise in taxes. Not just the importer, or the supplier, or the user.
The question in my mind is how would we go about selling the viability of this idea to the clamoring masses, the don’ttaxme upperclasses, the othercountry’s business classes, the don’tbothermeI’mwatchingtv on their asses?
Yep, I’m back to JTM.
So just put up our hands and accept it? Nope, I will keep banging my head into the wall.
Besides, the momentum is starting to swing. We will have carbon legislation in the coming years. If you listened to Obama’s speech in Canada, it sounded a lot like there will be a joint North American position in Copenhagen this year for the negotiations to a Kyoto follow up. That is a start, even if it is toothless…
So just put up our hands and accept it? Nope, I will keep banging my head into the wall.
Besides, the momentum is starting to swing. We will have carbon legislation in the coming years. If you listened to Obama’s speech in Canada, it sounded a lot like there will be a joint North American position in Copenhagen this year for the negotiations to a Kyoto follow up. That is a start, even if it is toothless…