How Low Can You Go?
January 5th, 2009 by Jon Taplin
I thought we had reached the nadir of Reality TV’s Theater of humiliation with Hurl. But now Ashton Kushner has topped that one.
“The good news is you have to do this challenge sitting down,” says the reliably annoying host. “The bad news is you have to sit down in that Porta-Potty over there that hasn’t been cleaned in a month.” The host is Joe Rogan, the moment embedded in a coming episode of “Game Show in My Head,” a new adventure in self-abasement that comes to us from Ashton Kutcher, actor/Nikon spokesman/television producer.
Mike Judge’s Idiocracy
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8_G1uTJhSk]
The sinking of the culture is a response to hundreds of years of oppression. The web is also full of disgusting stuff although it is better than few years ago. It is also in other areas like TV and films.
It is a part of the media revolution and opening up of culture. Free expression is not some absolute ideal. It will come as a result of a balancing act of many conflicting interests. While we should keep a critical eye on the extreme elements, we should allow it enough freedom so that it can balance itself out in the end.
A bit like raising children. If you don’t allow them to experiment and fail occasionally, they will not learn and be competent adults. If you raise them too clean their immune systems will be weak and will be prone to things like asthma.
The sinking of the culture is a response to hundreds of years of oppression. The web is also full of disgusting stuff although it is better than few years ago. It is also in other areas like TV and films.
It is a part of the media revolution and opening up of culture. Free expression is not some absolute ideal. It will come as a result of a balancing act of many conflicting interests. While we should keep a critical eye on the extreme elements, we should allow it enough freedom so that it can balance itself out in the end.
A bit like raising children. If you don’t allow them to experiment and fail occasionally, they will not learn and be competent adults. If you raise them too clean their immune systems will be weak and will be prone to things like asthma.
This brings to mind, not for the first time either, Terry Southern’s, the Magic Christian, and especially, the Peter Sellers/Ringo Starr film where people willingly dive into a swimming pool filled with shit.
This brings to mind, not for the first time either, Terry Southern’s, the Magic Christian, and especially, the Peter Sellers/Ringo Starr film where people willingly dive into a swimming pool filled with shit.
I must also say that the culture is not only sinking. It is in a complex excited state and also cleansing itself. A sign of accelerated transformation. Turks say;
“Demir tavinda dovulur”
“Iron is shaped hot”
While it is a very difficult phase, it is also a time of great opportunity. It will largely follow it’s own laws but I suspect there is a significant malleability margin. People transform more easily when they are in a hyper state like crying, laughing, meditating, scared, happy. Japanese say;
“A crisis is too good an opportunity to waste.”
I must also say that the culture is not only sinking. It is in a complex excited state and also cleansing itself. A sign of accelerated transformation. Turks say;
“Demir tavinda dovulur”
“Iron is shaped hot”
While it is a very difficult phase, it is also a time of great opportunity. It will largely follow it’s own laws but I suspect there is a significant malleability margin. People transform more easily when they are in a hyper state like crying, laughing, meditating, scared, happy. Japanese say;
“A crisis is too good an opportunity to waste.”
Does your balloon ever come down?
Does your balloon ever come down?
I guess the Japanese public must have been seriously oppressed, given the debasing and shameful stuff that they love to watch. And which oI guess “our” executive producers must have sampled to come up with the eat-the-cockroaches, swim-in-the-cesspool stuff in CableSpace and elsewhere. My toe-in-the-water looks into YouTube and MySpace are hardly a great sample, but it looks like debasement is alive and — well — there too.
Let’s not lose sight of good old fundamental human behavior, preferences and predilections, displayed through time, in assigning to “opression” the genesis of this kind of stuff. Are our children all oppressed? Then why are so many of them delighted by the gooey, the dripping, the sour and otherwise disgusting, in playthings and in the media and even books?
Read the Grimms Fairy Tales in the original some time for a good taste of yucchh. And anybody recall all the fun stuff that went on in cities and empires of the past? Right down to the chamber pots emptied out the windows of overhanging stories into the street, and the source of the custom of the gentleman walking to the street side to catch the splashed shite on his nondescript garb before it hit the lady’s brocaded dress.
I guess the Japanese public must have been seriously oppressed, given the debasing and shameful stuff that they love to watch. And which oI guess “our” executive producers must have sampled to come up with the eat-the-cockroaches, swim-in-the-cesspool stuff in CableSpace and elsewhere. My toe-in-the-water looks into YouTube and MySpace are hardly a great sample, but it looks like debasement is alive and — well — there too.
Let’s not lose sight of good old fundamental human behavior, preferences and predilections, displayed through time, in assigning to “opression” the genesis of this kind of stuff. Are our children all oppressed? Then why are so many of them delighted by the gooey, the dripping, the sour and otherwise disgusting, in playthings and in the media and even books?
Read the Grimms Fairy Tales in the original some time for a good taste of yucchh. And anybody recall all the fun stuff that went on in cities and empires of the past? Right down to the chamber pots emptied out the windows of overhanging stories into the street, and the source of the custom of the gentleman walking to the street side to catch the splashed shite on his nondescript garb before it hit the lady’s brocaded dress.
The Fugs rule…. still.
The Dead are touring again. There is hope.
Having not seen the line up, any comments on Garcia’s replacement?
The Fugs rule…. still.
The Dead are touring again. There is hope.
Having not seen the line up, any comments on Garcia’s replacement?
Is that for me Dan?
Is that for me Dan?
Dan;
“Does your balloon ever come down?”
When you make a statement like that from behind an alias with no links, make sure you cover your ass. You made it just after mine and won’t reply my question. I can only assume it is for me.
Your history here is rather vague. It seems you have no opinions of your own, and you prefer to surf the other posts with your piss weak comments. This strongly suggests you have a hidden motivation and you have been looking for a weak point to attack.
Which one of my generalizations didn’t you like? Anti-science religious cults? Plunder pyramid? The global terror campaign on scientists?
Are you one of those incompetent agents here?
Dan;
“Does your balloon ever come down?”
When you make a statement like that from behind an alias with no links, make sure you cover your ass. You made it just after mine and won’t reply my question. I can only assume it is for me.
Your history here is rather vague. It seems you have no opinions of your own, and you prefer to surf the other posts with your piss weak comments. This strongly suggests you have a hidden motivation and you have been looking for a weak point to attack.
Which one of my generalizations didn’t you like? Anti-science religious cults? Plunder pyramid? The global terror campaign on scientists?
Are you one of those incompetent agents here?
But Akira do you suppose we will ever just tire of this shit and actually grow up into that excellent metal forged in the fire? Or will that fire turn out to be nuclear with a half-life of forever? Or are there two levels, childhood with its endless curiosity and adulthood with its endless need to exploit?
Seeming isn’t being . . . and wanting isn’t doing.
Meanwhile, about Dan, I think he was just being amazed at what to him appeared to be endless optimism which of course we both know isn’t the same as optimistic realism.
But Akira do you suppose we will ever just tire of this shit and actually grow up into that excellent metal forged in the fire? Or will that fire turn out to be nuclear with a half-life of forever? Or are there two levels, childhood with its endless curiosity and adulthood with its endless need to exploit?
Seeming isn’t being . . . and wanting isn’t doing.
Meanwhile, about Dan, I think he was just being amazed at what to him appeared to be endless optimism which of course we both know isn’t the same as optimistic realism.
rhbee1;
The point of the metaphors is that there is an accelerated transformation and that there are more opportunities for change. The fact that we can discuss the change here is one of those cleansing acts. I did not suggest any absolute targets. All we can do is try and influence it in the directions we see fit, if there is enough of a malleability margin. “endless optimism” is not there. Maybe it is what you like to read into it.
And why don’t you let Dan clean his own act?
rhbee1;
The point of the metaphors is that there is an accelerated transformation and that there are more opportunities for change. The fact that we can discuss the change here is one of those cleansing acts. I did not suggest any absolute targets. All we can do is try and influence it in the directions we see fit, if there is enough of a malleability margin. “endless optimism” is not there. Maybe it is what you like to read into it.
And why don’t you let Dan clean his own act?
Fire away, Akira. I say what I want to say and make no apologies for it. If you see my comments as “piss-weak” that’s OK by me.
Sticks and stones.
Fire away, Akira. I say what I want to say and make no apologies for it. If you see my comments as “piss-weak” that’s OK by me.
Sticks and stones.
“It seems you have no opinions of your own”
By the way, I’m forwarding that comment on to…well…practically everyone I know. That is going to get major yucks.
“It seems you have no opinions of your own”
By the way, I’m forwarding that comment on to…well…practically everyone I know. That is going to get major yucks.
“It seems you have no opinions of your own”
By the way, I’m forwarding that comment on to…well…practically everyone I know. That is going to get major yucks.
Looking at the recent exchange of pleasantries here between a couple of fellow avatars, I just want to ask:
Anybody still believe humanity doesn’t have a death wish built in? Seems pretty clear to me that we CAN’T “all just get along.”
(roll the closing music from “Dr. Strangelove:”)
We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when
But I’m sure we’ll meet again some sunny day
Keep smiling through, just the way you used to do
Till the blue skies chase the dark clouds far away
Now, won’t you please say “Hello” to the folks that I know
Tell ‘em it won’t be long
’cause they’d be happy to know that when you saw me go
I was singing this song
We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when
But I’m sure we’ll meet again some sunny day
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVIRJumRJzv0ALETozAt.;_ylu=X3oDMTExdGs4NWhxBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA3JlNAR2dGlkAwRsA1dTMQ–/SIG=12rn6dm8k/EXP=1231424457/**http%3A//users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/A/Apoptosis.html
Feckin’ humans.
Looking at the recent exchange of pleasantries here between a couple of fellow avatars, I just want to ask:
Anybody still believe humanity doesn’t have a death wish built in? Seems pretty clear to me that we CAN’T “all just get along.”
(roll the closing music from “Dr. Strangelove:”)
We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when
But I’m sure we’ll meet again some sunny day
Keep smiling through, just the way you used to do
Till the blue skies chase the dark clouds far away
Now, won’t you please say “Hello” to the folks that I know
Tell ‘em it won’t be long
’cause they’d be happy to know that when you saw me go
I was singing this song
We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when
But I’m sure we’ll meet again some sunny day
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVIRJumRJzv0ALETozAt.;_ylu=X3oDMTExdGs4NWhxBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA3JlNAR2dGlkAwRsA1dTMQ–/SIG=12rn6dm8k/EXP=1231424457/**http%3A//users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/A/Apoptosis.html
Feckin’ humans.
Looking at the recent exchange of pleasantries here between a couple of fellow avatars, I just want to ask:
Anybody still believe humanity doesn’t have a death wish built in? Seems pretty clear to me that we CAN’T “all just get along.”
(roll the closing music from “Dr. Strangelove:”)
We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when
But I’m sure we’ll meet again some sunny day
Keep smiling through, just the way you used to do
Till the blue skies chase the dark clouds far away
Now, won’t you please say “Hello” to the folks that I know
Tell ‘em it won’t be long
’cause they’d be happy to know that when you saw me go
I was singing this song
We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when
But I’m sure we’ll meet again some sunny day
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVIRJumRJzv0ALETozAt.;_ylu=X3oDMTExdGs4NWhxBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA3JlNAR2dGlkAwRsA1dTMQ–/SIG=12rn6dm8k/EXP=1231424457/**http%3A//users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/A/Apoptosis.html
Feckin’ humans.
@len:
Lesh, Weir, Hart and Kreutzmann,
plus Warren Haynes and Jeff Chimenti (Ratdog keys)
Should be pretty good, though I’d have gone through the roof if it were Trey Anastasio instead of Haynes, and any of [Page, Medeski, or Benevento] on keys.
Slainte.
@len:
Lesh, Weir, Hart and Kreutzmann,
plus Warren Haynes and Jeff Chimenti (Ratdog keys)
Should be pretty good, though I’d have gone through the roof if it were Trey Anastasio instead of Haynes, and any of [Page, Medeski, or Benevento] on keys.
Slainte.
I saw the line up but don’t know those players. My guess is the family nature of the Dead is such that it carries through any lineup and the songwriting was always so superior that if played competently, those songs work.
There is one funny bit. On the page I was reading someone was making disparaging remarks about the Dead’s musicianship. Another commenter from the bay area said she was a classical sympony player and one of the Dead came to be a guest conductor. She was stunned how well versed he was and how competent. She told the other commenter he could have any opinion of the music but he should understand how deeply competent the Dead are as musicians.
Let me know how it goes. There is comfort in knowing they are still truckin.
I saw the line up but don’t know those players. My guess is the family nature of the Dead is such that it carries through any lineup and the songwriting was always so superior that if played competently, those songs work.
There is one funny bit. On the page I was reading someone was making disparaging remarks about the Dead’s musicianship. Another commenter from the bay area said she was a classical sympony player and one of the Dead came to be a guest conductor. She was stunned how well versed he was and how competent. She told the other commenter he could have any opinion of the music but he should understand how deeply competent the Dead are as musicians.
Let me know how it goes. There is comfort in knowing they are still truckin.
JT:
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. This is a remarkably civil board for the most part. There is a weird thing about online interaction though; occasionally people get proprietarial and assume because they comment a lot, it’s THEIR territory. I’ve seen it happen over and over again.
I’m pretty certain that the folks who comment on here a lot are smart and courteous enough to rachet it all back down so we can go back to solving the world’s problems issue by issue.
JT:
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. This is a remarkably civil board for the most part. There is a weird thing about online interaction though; occasionally people get proprietarial and assume because they comment a lot, it’s THEIR territory. I’ve seen it happen over and over again.
I’m pretty certain that the folks who comment on here a lot are smart and courteous enough to rachet it all back down so we can go back to solving the world’s problems issue by issue.
JT:
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. This is a remarkably civil board for the most part. There is a weird thing about online interaction though; occasionally people get proprietarial and assume because they comment a lot, it’s THEIR territory. I’ve seen it happen over and over again.
I’m pretty certain that the folks who comment on here a lot are smart and courteous enough to rachet it all back down so we can go back to solving the world’s problems issue by issue.
Chris and len:
The Dead inhabit a weird cultural space. I think the public’s perception of their fan base has led to people “dismissing” their competence out of hand. Yes, they’ve been mining pretty much the same territory for nigh on 40 years, but then again, so have the Rolling Stones.
Curious how one band gets the critical bouquets and the other gets the brickbats, isn’t it?
Perception, it’s an interesting thing.
Chris and len:
The Dead inhabit a weird cultural space. I think the public’s perception of their fan base has led to people “dismissing” their competence out of hand. Yes, they’ve been mining pretty much the same territory for nigh on 40 years, but then again, so have the Rolling Stones.
Curious how one band gets the critical bouquets and the other gets the brickbats, isn’t it?
Perception, it’s an interesting thing.
@tom: Even if they are mining the same space, the Dead of 1966 and the Dead of 1996 were vastly different sounds. They didn’t sit on their hits and licks. That sound kept evolving performance after performance. That is the charm of the so-called ‘jam band’ that the pundits dismiss but the audiences thrive on. My son is a jazz trumpeter and he loves it. My daughter, like her Dad, is a pop nazi and wants the lyrics and smooth arrangements. On the other hand, I’ve played in all kinds of bands and if all concerns are put to the side (eg, gettin’ paid), then the jam band is the most fun and satisfying at the end of the gig. I loved the songwriting band the best because of the tracks left behind. Call it ego. But the nights on stage playing the same songs with the same licks can be too much the same.
Perception, for sure.
@tom: Even if they are mining the same space, the Dead of 1966 and the Dead of 1996 were vastly different sounds. They didn’t sit on their hits and licks. That sound kept evolving performance after performance. That is the charm of the so-called ‘jam band’ that the pundits dismiss but the audiences thrive on. My son is a jazz trumpeter and he loves it. My daughter, like her Dad, is a pop nazi and wants the lyrics and smooth arrangements. On the other hand, I’ve played in all kinds of bands and if all concerns are put to the side (eg, gettin’ paid), then the jam band is the most fun and satisfying at the end of the gig. I loved the songwriting band the best because of the tracks left behind. Call it ego. But the nights on stage playing the same songs with the same licks can be too much the same.
Perception, for sure.
@tom: Even if they are mining the same space, the Dead of 1966 and the Dead of 1996 were vastly different sounds. They didn’t sit on their hits and licks. That sound kept evolving performance after performance. That is the charm of the so-called ‘jam band’ that the pundits dismiss but the audiences thrive on. My son is a jazz trumpeter and he loves it. My daughter, like her Dad, is a pop nazi and wants the lyrics and smooth arrangements. On the other hand, I’ve played in all kinds of bands and if all concerns are put to the side (eg, gettin’ paid), then the jam band is the most fun and satisfying at the end of the gig. I loved the songwriting band the best because of the tracks left behind. Call it ego. But the nights on stage playing the same songs with the same licks can be too much the same.
Perception, for sure.
That would have been Phil Lesh as guest conductor.
I did FOH (Front of House) mixing for the Dead off and on from 1970 into ’73 or so. Interesting, to say the least…
Get and read Sam Cutler’s book, “You Can’t Always Get What You Want” when it comes out here. He was the Rolling Stones’ road manager through the Altamont debacle, and then he was the ‘Dead’s road manager and then booking agent for a number of years. My wife at the time had been the ‘Dead’s secretary and then handled the books at Out of Town Tours working with Sam. She then went on to manage the Doobie Brothers office and road manage them. Those were some times…
That would have been Phil Lesh as guest conductor.
I did FOH (Front of House) mixing for the Dead off and on from 1970 into ’73 or so. Interesting, to say the least…
Get and read Sam Cutler’s book, “You Can’t Always Get What You Want” when it comes out here. He was the Rolling Stones’ road manager through the Altamont debacle, and then he was the ‘Dead’s road manager and then booking agent for a number of years. My wife at the time had been the ‘Dead’s secretary and then handled the books at Out of Town Tours working with Sam. She then went on to manage the Doobie Brothers office and road manage them. Those were some times…
That would have been Phil Lesh as guest conductor.
I did FOH (Front of House) mixing for the Dead off and on from 1970 into ’73 or so. Interesting, to say the least…
Get and read Sam Cutler’s book, “You Can’t Always Get What You Want” when it comes out here. He was the Rolling Stones’ road manager through the Altamont debacle, and then he was the ‘Dead’s road manager and then booking agent for a number of years. My wife at the time had been the ‘Dead’s secretary and then handled the books at Out of Town Tours working with Sam. She then went on to manage the Doobie Brothers office and road manage them. Those were some times…
Tom Wilmot;
“I’m pretty certain that the folks who comment on here a lot are smart and courteous enough to rachet it all back down so we can go back to solving the world’s problems issue by issue.”
I have been commenting lately here because I had time and I liked the place. But now I am not sure we can solve issues by turning a blind eye to a very critical point. A similar one is happening at the “Self Handicapping” post. Marquis de Sade was hated for his sadomasochism theory of society. I just extended it to here and education and what do I get? Dead silence from the big wigs and silly balloon remarks. When my generalizations worked in other areas it was fine but not here.
The entire mass production society, including the education sector, are built on the shepherd sheep metaphor. Therefore B&D, S&M, doctrinaire religious cults and authoritarian education are popular.
Seeing that my efforts have come to hit a brick wall, I am herewith quitting this joint for good. This is my last comment.
All the best.
Tom Wilmot;
“I’m pretty certain that the folks who comment on here a lot are smart and courteous enough to rachet it all back down so we can go back to solving the world’s problems issue by issue.”
I have been commenting lately here because I had time and I liked the place. But now I am not sure we can solve issues by turning a blind eye to a very critical point. A similar one is happening at the “Self Handicapping” post. Marquis de Sade was hated for his sadomasochism theory of society. I just extended it to here and education and what do I get? Dead silence from the big wigs and silly balloon remarks. When my generalizations worked in other areas it was fine but not here.
The entire mass production society, including the education sector, are built on the shepherd sheep metaphor. Therefore B&D, S&M, doctrinaire religious cults and authoritarian education are popular.
Seeing that my efforts have come to hit a brick wall, I am herewith quitting this joint for good. This is my last comment.
All the best.
Tom Wilmot;
“I’m pretty certain that the folks who comment on here a lot are smart and courteous enough to rachet it all back down so we can go back to solving the world’s problems issue by issue.”
I have been commenting lately here because I had time and I liked the place. But now I am not sure we can solve issues by turning a blind eye to a very critical point. A similar one is happening at the “Self Handicapping” post. Marquis de Sade was hated for his sadomasochism theory of society. I just extended it to here and education and what do I get? Dead silence from the big wigs and silly balloon remarks. When my generalizations worked in other areas it was fine but not here.
The entire mass production society, including the education sector, are built on the shepherd sheep metaphor. Therefore B&D, S&M, doctrinaire religious cults and authoritarian education are popular.
Seeing that my efforts have come to hit a brick wall, I am herewith quitting this joint for good. This is my last comment.
All the best.
Tom Wilmot;
“I’m pretty certain that the folks who comment on here a lot are smart and courteous enough to rachet it all back down so we can go back to solving the world’s problems issue by issue.”
I have been commenting lately here because I had time and I liked the place. But now I am not sure we can solve issues by turning a blind eye to a very critical point. A similar one is happening at the “Self Handicapping” post. Marquis de Sade was hated for his sadomasochism theory of society. I just extended it to here and education and what do I get? Dead silence from the big wigs and silly balloon remarks. When my generalizations worked in other areas it was fine but not here.
The entire mass production society, including the education sector, are built on the shepherd sheep metaphor. Therefore B&D, S&M, doctrinaire religious cults and authoritarian education are popular.
Seeing that my efforts have come to hit a brick wall, I am herewith quitting this joint for good. This is my last comment.
All the best.
Thanks Rick. Yes, they said it was Lesh.
Also thanks for the book pointers.
Thanks Rick. Yes, they said it was Lesh.
Also thanks for the book pointers.
Thanks Rick. Yes, they said it was Lesh.
Also thanks for the book pointers.