I thought Obama did very well. I assume the media will call it a draw. But the mistake is to concentrate too much on what the words were and not the body language. The classic story about the first Kennedy Nixon debate in 1960 was that people listening on the radio thought that Nixon won and people seeing it on TV thought that Kennedy won. McCain came off tonight as a crotchety scolding presence (”Senator Obama is Naive”) while Barack was full of sunny confidence. That will make a long term difference, especially as this was John McCain’s home field–Foreign Policy.
First Post Debate Thoughts
September 26, 2008 · 15 Comments
Categories: Barack Obama · Foreign Policy · John McCain · Politics · Recession
Tagged: Barack Obama, John McCain, Political Debates, Politics
15 responses so far ↓
bolsonon // September 26, 2008 at 7:11 pm |
Sunny confidence… Yes, that is what we want from our next president…sunny confidence. I believe that’s just before “perky perserverance” and right after “giddy goodness” on the list…
Chris Weekly // September 26, 2008 at 7:48 pm |
@bolsonon You deliberately miss JT’s point: body language, confidence, demeanor, stature… of course substance matters more than style, but the medium is at least part of the message here. The public is getting further hints of McCain’s angry, disrespectful, self-centered disposition, all of which are sharply contrasted with Obama’s coolness and grace under pressure, and consistent even-tempered restraint and politeness. McCain looked like the angry, spoiled, yes crotchety, sick old man he is, while Obama carried himself in a manner appropriate to the office.
Previous posts’ commentary about civility and diplomacy reinforce the point: temperament matters a great deal (never mind IQ or ethics, other areas where Obama crushes McCain), and tonight — even in McCain’s ostensible area of strength — Obama not only held his own on topic, he did it in a Presidential way. Yes, that matters.
john // September 26, 2008 at 8:22 pm |
you saw what you wanted to see.
i saw a draw. obama took economic issues. mccain took foreign policy — particularly russia.
love certain aspects of the blog, jon, but objectivity will keep me coming back…”sunny confidence”? eeesh. i’m an obama supporter and i’m scoffing.
MichaelR // September 26, 2008 at 9:14 pm |
Jim Lehrer won. He asked great questions, returned the candidates to answer the ones they used as talking point launch pads and stayed out of the way of the candidates as they answered.
Great Job Jim!
Rick Turner // September 26, 2008 at 9:15 pm |
The president’s job is to inspire. It’s not to be a paper pushing wonk. Who are considered the “Great Presidents”? Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt (both of them, really), Truman, Kennedy, and I’ll even throw in Reagan, though I know him to have been a Hollywood acting puppet. A good president IS a figurehead; that’s the gig. Anything more is a bonus, and I think we’ll get the figurehead and the bonus with Obama.
And that’s to say nothing of the international game-change. We’re done as the most powerful nation in the world. We now have to get along with others.
That may mean bombing the shit out of a rogue nation. If, for instance, Iran nukes Israel, I’m all in favor of the ultimate nuclear winter in Tehran. Craterize the damned place, and yes millions of innocents will die, but let it be the lesson.
But go sit at the table with the worst of them. Sit at Kim’s bedside. Go to the mountains of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Take Putin out on a safe date. Take de money and run Venezuela. Go have a cigar with cool Raoul. See what they’re about eye to eye, and find out why they’re so fucked up. Then figure out how to deal with the sick and mentally disturbed leaders of the world who do seem to have their adherents.
For those who believe in Karma, reincarnation, the BodhiSatvah concept (we can’t personally get “there” until all are ready), the world situation is a hyper amplified and extremized version of what has always been. Some are ready to move beyond all this bullshit, but many are not. We are not, any of us, ready to move on until all have reached a place of readiness. And those ignorant mother fuckers are keeping us back! Cool…chill… We can’t go until we’ve helped them along…
And so you see Obama putting up with McCain. It’ s like Obama has taken the vow. He needs for McCain to get it.
Maybe…
Mason Dixon // September 26, 2008 at 9:19 pm |
Chris,
I saw what you saw. I don’t think McCain is going to help our standing in the world. I think the world will keep on thinking the U.S. is a big bully and deserves whatever bad shit rains down on us. McCain looked disdainful, and sounded like a supercilious asshole. Putin probably can’t wait to get a shot at him.
If he wins, rich people will be fine. If they have bunkers.
Terry // September 26, 2008 at 10:33 pm |
Love the net. Always nitpicking the words… (see “wierd”)…
But I half-heartedly agree. Though I wouldn’t call it “sunny”, he sure was confident. Someone called crotchety McCain out when he refused to look at Obama, even when being directly addressed. Point taken, but we already knew that. What really struck me is when Obama looked directly at the camera, directly at “us”. To look America in the eye during such times, that’s confidence. But again, “we” (O supporters) already knew that.
On another note… catching Bin Laden and killing him. Holy shit… I know you gotta touch base with the dyed-in-the-wool-over-their-eyes Patriots, but to someone like me who respects due process, no matter what, that was kinda scary, kinda Bushy. Asides like that keeps the cynic/skeptic in me alive.
Call me a traitor, I suppose. You win some, you lose some, I suppose.
Rick Turner // September 26, 2008 at 11:19 pm |
Are you suggesting due process for Bin Laden? As in go arrest him? How the fuck naive can you be? He has declared war on us, and Bush’s reluctance or incompetence to deal with that is perhaps impeachable in my book. And I’m an old peace love leftie… Send in the drones, don’t worry about Pakistan’s or Afghanistan’s sovereign-fucking-ty, and blow that asshole away.
Fentex // September 26, 2008 at 11:53 pm |
If you don’t support freedoms and due process for people you disagree with, personally hate or presuppose are guilty you don’t support the rule of law at all.
This is a basic, logical, tenet of rule by law and respect for human rights.
Although not many could dispute Bin Ladens hate of the U.S and complicity in murderous crimes (he does appear to have admitted as much) he still must be accorded proper treatment under just laws.
The U.S abandonment of the rule of law is a major contributor to its increased isolation and ostracism.
This should be a matter of concern to U.S citizens because it undermines their security and business oportunities (and not just because their government is now claiming sovereign control over their persons).
douglas newhouse // September 27, 2008 at 1:49 am |
I am an Obama supporter–but for what its worth I thought that McCain won–not that it will matter–he was energized ie didn’t seem old, optimistic amd controlled the conversation–quite frankly I was surprised–
Phil // September 27, 2008 at 4:27 am |
Obama was poised and confident, but not as surefooted rhetorically as I would have liked, and as others have pointed out, he missed a few opportunities. He did a fine job of engaging both the camera (and by extension, us) and his opponent.
McCain held his own, showing a mastery of his subject matter, and did a good job of projecting his experience. It was clear though, that he was using a lot of stump material, which didn’t work well in the debate format. He was somewhat disdainful and scolding, which likely thrilled his supporters as much as it annoyed Obama’s. His body language was all wrong though, it spoke of petulance, and it must be said, perhaps a little fear. Toward the end he was obviously getting fatigued, and that left-eye-drooping thing became a lot more noticeable.
It was definitely a strong showing for both, but a slam dunk for neither. Obama and McCain each went a long way towards demonstrating he was old enough, and not too old, respectively.
Rick Turner // September 27, 2008 at 4:53 am |
Sorry for being so snarky, but Bin Laden is not a simple civil criminal. He’s declared war on us, and he needs to be eliminated by whatever means are at our disposal. Vaporize him. He’d not be taken alive anyway.
Phil // September 27, 2008 at 5:26 am |
Sounds like something Reagan would have said.
Roman // September 27, 2008 at 6:19 am |
Tie; I doubt either connected beyond their core constituencies.
The only winner was moderator, Jim Lehr, who for the first time in memory, successfully created a “debate” – albeit brief and not particularly memorable.
Given this past weeks’ events, I tried to imagine both as President, not on Jan 20, but say, two or three years later. Who will they be? Will they shape events or will events shape them? Will they be a statesman, actively engaged in leading and reforming? Or a figure head, content with overseeing their legions of political appointees?
Although unnerving, I could see McCain as a statesman – the “bull in a china shop” type, relishing the the grind of governance.
Unfortunately, I couldn’t see Obama in that role, and fear he’d end up a figure head, content with the P/R aspect of the job, leaving the grit to the legions.
I think this goes deeper than the “experience” arguement. There was something unsettling in Obama’s demeanor, maybe it was his diction or body language, but I just couldn’t get comfortable envisioning him as a statesman. Maybe I set the bar too high too soon.
The rub, after the past eight years of bumping around in the dark, I can’t stomach the prospect of being adrift for another four years.
The irony here – it’s Obama not McCain that’s hobbled by the Bush presidency. Go figure.
Terry // September 27, 2008 at 10:53 pm |
@Rick.
Yeah, Laden is not your average criminal. I’m just afraid of the slippery slope. Green Peace activists/eco-terrorists declare war on our (the consumer’s) way of life. Do we destroy them too?
But you have a point. He won’t be taken alive.
The higher road is tough, unforgiving and thankless, but its the right road. And in regards to diplomacy, I think America needs to be “in the right” these days.
Gotta love youthful idealism, right?