Conservatives and Racism
I am by nature an optimist. Even when I posted on Redneck Pride, I assumed the role of the cultural anthropologist trying (as I have since I first met Levon Helm in 1968) to understand the crackers. But it is dawning on me that the level of racism that is tolerated or even encouraged by the conservative movement is a “bridge too far” and that there may in fact be two Americas.
Exhibit A- Two morons from Franklin Tennessee, Mark Whitlock and Bob DeMoss, were selling Obama Waffles at the Values Voters Summit this morning in Washington. While next door to these cretin’s salesbooth Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney rattled on about the Conservative Revolution, the true colors of the right wing appeal may be depicted on this disgusting regurgitation of the Aunt Jemima stereotype. Rush Limbaugh may regularly play his “Barack, the Magic Negro” ditty to an appreciative radio audience without fear of censure. But I know the days of these Sons of the Klan are numbered. But as long as the press are silent and tolerant of Limbaugh and his dittoheads, this crap will continue.
In 54 days we will find out if Neanderthals like Whitlock and Demoss make up enough of the population to deprive our country of the real change it deserves. Many of you have asked me to stop acting like the electorate is a rational body, open to dealing with the facts of a Republican Party that has drawn our nation into the extremes of peril. I will go to church tomorrow morning and pray to God to forgive Whitlock, Demoss and Limbaugh for the poison they are pouring on our polity. And then I will get up and work hard for the next 50 days in the belief that they don’t represent a majority of hate.
POINTED REVELATIONS REPORTS…
“McCain’s Ties to Shadowy Security Company Confirmed”
(revised September 13, 2008)
John McCain makes occasional mention of his friend, Admiral Chuck Larson, whose distinguished career includes the command of nuclear submarines and the management of the Naval Academy.
Not as well known but by no means concealed is Larson’s link to Washington’s ViaGlobal Group, the successor company to ViaFinance and Galway Partners.
ViaGlobal was serving as the “business incubator” for Rosetta Research and Consulting LLC, best known as the company involved in luring Afghan tribal chieftain and accused drug kingpin Haji Bashar Noorzai to the U.S., where he was arrested in April of 2005.
Rosetta’s Department of Defense sponsors, Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld, brokered an introduction to CNN military commentator General David Grange, who serves as an advisor to ViaGlobal.
Grange made the initial arrangements between Rosetta, represented by former Katten Muchin Zavis Rosenman partner and ex-NSC attorney Joseph Myers, now with the International Monetary Fund, and ViaGlobal’s chairman, Frank Gren.
Another former Katten Muchin Zavis Rosenman partner, Carole Van Cleefe, brokered a deal between Rosetta and Oracle. Oracle project managers Barbara Bleiweiss and Peter Bloom attempted to establish a joint venture using an existing contract vehicle with the Foreign Terrorist Tracking Task Force (FTTTF), but was unsuccessful due to Rosetta’s cost demands.
Gren and his colleagues sought to obtain additional funding for Rosetta, as millions of dollars in investment money had been spent on payments to secure the confidence of Noorzai. Myers, Gren, and others sought sources of funding such as a contract with the FBI as well as an investment from fallen tobacco lawyer Dickie Scruggs.
ViaGlobal appears to have used McCain, acting through staffer Chris Paul, to divert a 2004 FBI internal investigation into dealings between Rosetta contractors and certain FBI employees. This was the subject of a meeting held with the FBI’s Deputy Director John Pistole in late 2004.
In mid 2006, the Department of Justice’s Office of the Inspector General conducted an investigation into criminal activities of the same FBI employees. Rosetta’s phone, email, and contractual records were subpoenaed. In addition, several Rosetta officials and advisors were questioned for several weeks.
Papers filed as part of the Noorzai case show that Rosetta, acting under the orders of senior U.S. officials, promised Noorzai he would not be arrested. Rosetta also paid substantial sums to various foreign government officials who then lied to Noorzai about the actual purpose of the meetings. Noorzai had been indicted as a drug kingpin, and since efforts to secure his cooperation in other matters had failed, the decision was made to bring him to the United States and arrest him.
The papers also show that Rosetta sought and obtained in excess of ten million dollars from investors, who believed they were investing in a security company.
Instead, the money was being used to finance the lavish and extensive travel needed to locate Noorzai and gain his confidence. The investors are understandably upset, but since the Rosetta principals are known only as “Mike” and “Brian” no success has been had in locating them.
Rosetta also had improper relationships with a handful of FBI employees, who were later investigated for contributing to Rosetta’s alleged violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices and Neutrality Acts.
As part of the incubation arrangement, ViaGlobal sought to obtain ownership of Rosetta’s proprietary database of terrorist financiers as well as access to the extensive network of contacts in the Middle East developed as part of the dealings with Noorzai.
For more information: pointedrevelations@yahoo.com
POINTED REVELATIONS REPORTS…
“McCain’s Ties to Shadowy Security Company Confirmed”
(revised September 13, 2008)
John McCain makes occasional mention of his friend, Admiral Chuck Larson, whose distinguished career includes the command of nuclear submarines and the management of the Naval Academy.
Not as well known but by no means concealed is Larson’s link to Washington’s ViaGlobal Group, the successor company to ViaFinance and Galway Partners.
ViaGlobal was serving as the “business incubator” for Rosetta Research and Consulting LLC, best known as the company involved in luring Afghan tribal chieftain and accused drug kingpin Haji Bashar Noorzai to the U.S., where he was arrested in April of 2005.
Rosetta’s Department of Defense sponsors, Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld, brokered an introduction to CNN military commentator General David Grange, who serves as an advisor to ViaGlobal.
Grange made the initial arrangements between Rosetta, represented by former Katten Muchin Zavis Rosenman partner and ex-NSC attorney Joseph Myers, now with the International Monetary Fund, and ViaGlobal’s chairman, Frank Gren.
Another former Katten Muchin Zavis Rosenman partner, Carole Van Cleefe, brokered a deal between Rosetta and Oracle. Oracle project managers Barbara Bleiweiss and Peter Bloom attempted to establish a joint venture using an existing contract vehicle with the Foreign Terrorist Tracking Task Force (FTTTF), but was unsuccessful due to Rosetta’s cost demands.
Gren and his colleagues sought to obtain additional funding for Rosetta, as millions of dollars in investment money had been spent on payments to secure the confidence of Noorzai. Myers, Gren, and others sought sources of funding such as a contract with the FBI as well as an investment from fallen tobacco lawyer Dickie Scruggs.
ViaGlobal appears to have used McCain, acting through staffer Chris Paul, to divert a 2004 FBI internal investigation into dealings between Rosetta contractors and certain FBI employees. This was the subject of a meeting held with the FBI’s Deputy Director John Pistole in late 2004.
In mid 2006, the Department of Justice’s Office of the Inspector General conducted an investigation into criminal activities of the same FBI employees. Rosetta’s phone, email, and contractual records were subpoenaed. In addition, several Rosetta officials and advisors were questioned for several weeks.
Papers filed as part of the Noorzai case show that Rosetta, acting under the orders of senior U.S. officials, promised Noorzai he would not be arrested. Rosetta also paid substantial sums to various foreign government officials who then lied to Noorzai about the actual purpose of the meetings. Noorzai had been indicted as a drug kingpin, and since efforts to secure his cooperation in other matters had failed, the decision was made to bring him to the United States and arrest him.
The papers also show that Rosetta sought and obtained in excess of ten million dollars from investors, who believed they were investing in a security company.
Instead, the money was being used to finance the lavish and extensive travel needed to locate Noorzai and gain his confidence. The investors are understandably upset, but since the Rosetta principals are known only as “Mike” and “Brian” no success has been had in locating them.
Rosetta also had improper relationships with a handful of FBI employees, who were later investigated for contributing to Rosetta’s alleged violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices and Neutrality Acts.
As part of the incubation arrangement, ViaGlobal sought to obtain ownership of Rosetta’s proprietary database of terrorist financiers as well as access to the extensive network of contacts in the Middle East developed as part of the dealings with Noorzai.
For more information: pointedrevelations@yahoo.com
At least two.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke64670GkZ8
Maybe lots more.
At least two.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke64670GkZ8
Maybe lots more.
The ‘electorate is not a rational body’, how else can you explain the politicians elected at all levels?
The ‘electorate is not a rational body’, how else can you explain the politicians elected at all levels?
They were the ones who raised the money and ran. It’s a self-limiting and self-promoting gig.
Choce of choices.
They were the ones who raised the money and ran. It’s a self-limiting and self-promoting gig.
Choce of choices.
It’s so painful when those among us will do everything they can to avoid the subject of race.
Like try and change the subject to sexism.
This campaign is making a lot of people uncomfortable. Maybe that’s just an unfortunate effect of the system we have.
You have to choose one side or the other. Often each carry with it a lot of baggage we’d rather not think about.
Although, having said that, I’m sure glad I’m not voting in the same booth as the Klan.
It’s so painful when those among us will do everything they can to avoid the subject of race.
Like try and change the subject to sexism.
This campaign is making a lot of people uncomfortable. Maybe that’s just an unfortunate effect of the system we have.
You have to choose one side or the other. Often each carry with it a lot of baggage we’d rather not think about.
Although, having said that, I’m sure glad I’m not voting in the same booth as the Klan.
Noel- I’ve noticed that Len keeps changing the subject when we talk aboout Obama and race, though he doesn’t ever do that when talking about culture.
Noel- I’ve noticed that Len keeps changing the subject when we talk aboout Obama and race, though he doesn’t ever do that when talking about culture.
It does sound like he harbors some kind a hateful grudge against Obama, to quote a phrase.
It does sound like he harbors some kind a hateful grudge against Obama, to quote a phrase.
Len,
You wrote on a different thread that the change Mc/Palin offer is an end to political correctness.
What is this fantasy? This political correctness thing is, I’m sorry, pure bullshit.
I grew up in a small town in a southern state, and what they mean by “political correctness” is no longer having the freedom to be a bigot in public, to have prejudice as the default, and ultimately, having to put themselves in check and wait until they are in a “safe” group of like-minded people to tell nigger jokes, Mexican jokes, and Hillary/women jokes, to say nothing of the fags. I know they really miss the good old days. I don’t. I couldn’t get out of there fast enough.
And if you didn’t catch Bill Moyers Journal last night, this gives a chilling view of just how far to the right, and how large, the audience is for pure, unadulterated hate speech towards Liberals. Goebbels would be proud.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09122008/watch.html
Len,
You wrote on a different thread that the change Mc/Palin offer is an end to political correctness.
What is this fantasy? This political correctness thing is, I’m sorry, pure bullshit.
I grew up in a small town in a southern state, and what they mean by “political correctness” is no longer having the freedom to be a bigot in public, to have prejudice as the default, and ultimately, having to put themselves in check and wait until they are in a “safe” group of like-minded people to tell nigger jokes, Mexican jokes, and Hillary/women jokes, to say nothing of the fags. I know they really miss the good old days. I don’t. I couldn’t get out of there fast enough.
And if you didn’t catch Bill Moyers Journal last night, this gives a chilling view of just how far to the right, and how large, the audience is for pure, unadulterated hate speech towards Liberals. Goebbels would be proud.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09122008/watch.html
“You wrote on a different thread that the change Mc/Palin offer is an end to political correctness.”
I don’t think I said that. Point it out.
If you think I don’t know about that, you’d be wrong. I grew up in it. I’m saying it isn’t the reason all people vote for Palin and against Obama. Further, there is nothing that I, Moyers or you are going to do to change that except not to accept it in our own hearts.
Find a stupid person and you’ve found a stupid person regardless of what the stupid thought is. They vote. Guess what? There is nothing you or I will do about that nor can we except not vote a stupid thought ourselves.
I’ve been a liberal all of my life and a leftist. I simply refuse to be a fool for the sake of belonging to that club.
Fight it, Yes. For votes? No. It’s using our faults as a way to give one power class or another more power when both classes are equally ready and willing to use it for their own self-interests, not necesarily of those they say they represent.
If Pelosi was real, she would be pursuing prosecution of Bush. She isn’t. Show me the money.
Tell me how education will be fixed. Tell me how we can have a country where all levels of social advantage can get their shot at a good life, tell me how we’ll bring home the troops without leaving another Lebanon behind. I don’t care what the last eight years were because America chose them. The system did what it does. Phooey. Tell me about tomorrow.
But don’t tell me He Is the One.
It’s BS. It’s a scam. It’s the rock star.
Not buying it. This election IS too important to buy that. But I’ll watch the debates with an open mind. I want to hear their deal.
But if you keep posing this as a culture about to whup up on another culture, forget it. You’ll lose. It just scares people.
“You wrote on a different thread that the change Mc/Palin offer is an end to political correctness.”
I don’t think I said that. Point it out.
If you think I don’t know about that, you’d be wrong. I grew up in it. I’m saying it isn’t the reason all people vote for Palin and against Obama. Further, there is nothing that I, Moyers or you are going to do to change that except not to accept it in our own hearts.
Find a stupid person and you’ve found a stupid person regardless of what the stupid thought is. They vote. Guess what? There is nothing you or I will do about that nor can we except not vote a stupid thought ourselves.
I’ve been a liberal all of my life and a leftist. I simply refuse to be a fool for the sake of belonging to that club.
Fight it, Yes. For votes? No. It’s using our faults as a way to give one power class or another more power when both classes are equally ready and willing to use it for their own self-interests, not necesarily of those they say they represent.
If Pelosi was real, she would be pursuing prosecution of Bush. She isn’t. Show me the money.
Tell me how education will be fixed. Tell me how we can have a country where all levels of social advantage can get their shot at a good life, tell me how we’ll bring home the troops without leaving another Lebanon behind. I don’t care what the last eight years were because America chose them. The system did what it does. Phooey. Tell me about tomorrow.
But don’t tell me He Is the One.
It’s BS. It’s a scam. It’s the rock star.
Not buying it. This election IS too important to buy that. But I’ll watch the debates with an open mind. I want to hear their deal.
But if you keep posing this as a culture about to whup up on another culture, forget it. You’ll lose. It just scares people.
Len,
Please forgive me, I was wrong. You did not say that. Armand said that. So sorry.
Len,
Please forgive me, I was wrong. You did not say that. Armand said that. So sorry.
Noel,
It’s interesting to note that Palin’s gender provided an opportunity for folks on the Left to let some real identity-based attacks fly.
For the most part, they haven’t. To be sure, there have been plenty of redneck digs, but pointed cultural criticism falls well short of smears aimed at qualities intrinsic to a person. Nor does it come freighted with a legacy of sustained and categorical disenfranchisement that’s been particularly hard to overcome. Above all, what has circulated on the Left has never come anywhere near the Democrat’s prevailing platform. It simply wouldn’t be tolerated. And this has been stated, publicly and with clear conviction, just to be sure.
Some may point to Hillary Clinton, and her participation in the framing of Obama as a Muslim, or Bill Clinton, and comments of his that alienated plenty of black voters. But these are the Democrat’s losers. The winners are keeping bigotry – be it real, or simply tactical – far, far away from the platform.
Obviously, the same can’t be said for the GOP.
Even so, I’m wondering if displays like the one above – made within earshot of GOP House Speakers and Presidential candidates – aren’t actually a demonstration of the First Amendment’s wisdom in action. The openness established by the law has allowed the foolish, misguided, and just plain mean to self-identify, and do so with spectacular efficiently.
Better socialized individuals are mortified by the results – especially the ones at which these slurs are aimed. It’s really not surprising that the GOP Convention was lily white, and without shame; something noticed and commented on widely.
It’s as though the GOP has no one in any position of authority who can notice the intractable changes in taking place in American demographics. (Another form of climate blindness, perhaps?) And now the law of diminishing returns is working against the party. The more of this they tolerate, the faster they’ll become a permanent minority.
It’s ironic that the characteristically right-wing fear of Darwin is the very thing that’s accelerating the GOP towards its political extinction.
I suppose the question is whether we need to save them from themselves, of if neglecting the Republicans to their deeply-rooted jingoism will bring down everyone else at the same time. As Jon noted, this thing could still go either way.
Noel,
It’s interesting to note that Palin’s gender provided an opportunity for folks on the Left to let some real identity-based attacks fly.
For the most part, they haven’t. To be sure, there have been plenty of redneck digs, but pointed cultural criticism falls well short of smears aimed at qualities intrinsic to a person. Nor does it come freighted with a legacy of sustained and categorical disenfranchisement that’s been particularly hard to overcome. Above all, what has circulated on the Left has never come anywhere near the Democrat’s prevailing platform. It simply wouldn’t be tolerated. And this has been stated, publicly and with clear conviction, just to be sure.
Some may point to Hillary Clinton, and her participation in the framing of Obama as a Muslim, or Bill Clinton, and comments of his that alienated plenty of black voters. But these are the Democrat’s losers. The winners are keeping bigotry – be it real, or simply tactical – far, far away from the platform.
Obviously, the same can’t be said for the GOP.
Even so, I’m wondering if displays like the one above – made within earshot of GOP House Speakers and Presidential candidates – aren’t actually a demonstration of the First Amendment’s wisdom in action. The openness established by the law has allowed the foolish, misguided, and just plain mean to self-identify, and do so with spectacular efficiently.
Better socialized individuals are mortified by the results – especially the ones at which these slurs are aimed. It’s really not surprising that the GOP Convention was lily white, and without shame; something noticed and commented on widely.
It’s as though the GOP has no one in any position of authority who can notice the intractable changes in taking place in American demographics. (Another form of climate blindness, perhaps?) And now the law of diminishing returns is working against the party. The more of this they tolerate, the faster they’ll become a permanent minority.
It’s ironic that the characteristically right-wing fear of Darwin is the very thing that’s accelerating the GOP towards its political extinction.
I suppose the question is whether we need to save them from themselves, of if neglecting the Republicans to their deeply-rooted jingoism will bring down everyone else at the same time. As Jon noted, this thing could still go either way.
Of course, Newt and Mitt aren’t exactly winners, but then again, their elections are over, and they’re still mixing with this swill. So perhaps, for them, it wasn’t just a sleazy tactic – it’s actually a matter of belief – or, at the very least, something to be treated with indifference.
Regardless, we’re still faced with this:
jin·go·ism (jĭng’gō-ĭz’əm) n. Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.
Oh, and the direct lying, which we can add to the unreformed bigotry, and the total disregard for suitable preparation. That’s a Grand Old Party indeed.
Of course, Newt and Mitt aren’t exactly winners, but then again, their elections are over, and they’re still mixing with this swill. So perhaps, for them, it wasn’t just a sleazy tactic – it’s actually a matter of belief – or, at the very least, something to be treated with indifference.
Regardless, we’re still faced with this:
jin·go·ism (jĭng’gō-ĭz’əm) n. Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.
Oh, and the direct lying, which we can add to the unreformed bigotry, and the total disregard for suitable preparation. That’s a Grand Old Party indeed.
More from the Liberal Media…
Lou Dobbs buying Obama Waffles
The image is a screen capture of a blog run by the makers of this garbage–they deleted it after word got out to the blogosphere.
http://images.politico.com/global/waffe2.jpg
And for a first hand report from the Values Convention, read this account by Larisa Alexandrovna…
http://www.atlargely.com/2008/09/white-power-the.html#more
“The first picture below is the front of the waffle box and it is startling in its overt racism. I asked the “chef” of this ugly version of reality if he was at all concerned that this might be viewed as a white man putting a black man into a frying pan and he laughed and said “I hope so.”"
And this…
“As you can see, it shows an image of Obama as a turbaned “Osama” and the text in the red box says “Point the box toward Mecca for tastier waffles.”
But hey, they just love America, like you and me. Except that they want to slit our throats.
More from the Liberal Media…
Lou Dobbs buying Obama Waffles
The image is a screen capture of a blog run by the makers of this garbage–they deleted it after word got out to the blogosphere.
http://images.politico.com/global/waffe2.jpg
And for a first hand report from the Values Convention, read this account by Larisa Alexandrovna…
http://www.atlargely.com/2008/09/white-power-the.html#more
“The first picture below is the front of the waffle box and it is startling in its overt racism. I asked the “chef” of this ugly version of reality if he was at all concerned that this might be viewed as a white man putting a black man into a frying pan and he laughed and said “I hope so.”"
And this…
“As you can see, it shows an image of Obama as a turbaned “Osama” and the text in the red box says “Point the box toward Mecca for tastier waffles.”
But hey, they just love America, like you and me. Except that they want to slit our throats.
Len -
Your the perfect Reagan Democrat.
No wonder you and Morgan got along so well.
Totally defeated.
‘Oh well, people are just bigots and I’m not gonna fight it cuz that’ll just empower em – besides we do it too.’
Guess what?- I didn’t ‘choose’ the last eight years, and neither did about 250,000,000 other Americans.
Tell you how education will be fixed?
Well it certainly won’t be fixed by a party who openly admits and administers their desire to destroy government. And it’s definitely not going to be fixed by structural income inequity- purveyed by the same said party.
How do we prevent another Lebanon?
Too late. Unless, of course we install another authoritarian regime like the one we deposed.
(which we seem to be pretty good at)
The real way to avoid another Lebanon?
How about avoid the Big Lebanon in Iran and the wider Middle East. And again – the party your toying with voting for will surely provide.
I don’t buy your ‘careful deliberation’ and ‘watching debates with an open mind’ nonsense.
Your a smart guy – you know the positions these candidates take. Those debates are theater – and your NOT the intended audience.
As someone who claims to be a lifelong ‘liberal’ and a ‘leftist’, surely you understand that there are more than minor tweaks that separate McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden – As if these are issues to be pondered (following a debate) just as Charlie Gibson ruminates on McCain’s ‘candor’ or Obama’s ‘powerful style’.
What about the Supreme Court? Mr. Lefty
So what is it? Are you still mad about Hillary? Pelosi’s a joke? Couldn’t agree more.
Come on.
You tell me – how important IS this election?
Or is it something about Obama ….?
Len -
Your the perfect Reagan Democrat.
No wonder you and Morgan got along so well.
Totally defeated.
‘Oh well, people are just bigots and I’m not gonna fight it cuz that’ll just empower em – besides we do it too.’
Guess what?- I didn’t ‘choose’ the last eight years, and neither did about 250,000,000 other Americans.
Tell you how education will be fixed?
Well it certainly won’t be fixed by a party who openly admits and administers their desire to destroy government. And it’s definitely not going to be fixed by structural income inequity- purveyed by the same said party.
How do we prevent another Lebanon?
Too late. Unless, of course we install another authoritarian regime like the one we deposed.
(which we seem to be pretty good at)
The real way to avoid another Lebanon?
How about avoid the Big Lebanon in Iran and the wider Middle East. And again – the party your toying with voting for will surely provide.
I don’t buy your ‘careful deliberation’ and ‘watching debates with an open mind’ nonsense.
Your a smart guy – you know the positions these candidates take. Those debates are theater – and your NOT the intended audience.
As someone who claims to be a lifelong ‘liberal’ and a ‘leftist’, surely you understand that there are more than minor tweaks that separate McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden – As if these are issues to be pondered (following a debate) just as Charlie Gibson ruminates on McCain’s ‘candor’ or Obama’s ‘powerful style’.
What about the Supreme Court? Mr. Lefty
So what is it? Are you still mad about Hillary? Pelosi’s a joke? Couldn’t agree more.
Come on.
You tell me – how important IS this election?
Or is it something about Obama ….?
Len-Any man who writes this- “Find a stupid person and you’ve found a stupid person regardless of what the stupid thought is. They vote. Guess what?”–has been beaten down by the town he lives in and its small minded nature.
You are the one who doesn’t get it. You are the one who doesn’t see that all the polling models are based on 2004 election turnout. But what if the number of 18-34 voters doubles? Then all the polling models are bullshit and all the number of crackers that you are sure are out there, shrink to a nice controllable minority. A minority that is getting smaller by the year as the old racists die off.
You claim you want to invent a new America. But you also claim that who’s in the White House doesn’t matter. That’s bullshit and you know it.
I have have regarded your posts on “Cranky about the Culture” as some of the most poetic blog writing I’ve ever read.
But for some reason you are blind to the possible change that is right in front of you in the person of Barack.
Having John McCain and Sarah Palin running this country would be a travesty. Marx once said in effect that in history, everything happens twice, first as tragedy, the second time as farce.
The tragedy of George Bush and Dick Cheney would be repeated as the farce of John McCain and Sarah Palin.
Len-Any man who writes this- “Find a stupid person and you’ve found a stupid person regardless of what the stupid thought is. They vote. Guess what?”–has been beaten down by the town he lives in and its small minded nature.
You are the one who doesn’t get it. You are the one who doesn’t see that all the polling models are based on 2004 election turnout. But what if the number of 18-34 voters doubles? Then all the polling models are bullshit and all the number of crackers that you are sure are out there, shrink to a nice controllable minority. A minority that is getting smaller by the year as the old racists die off.
You claim you want to invent a new America. But you also claim that who’s in the White House doesn’t matter. That’s bullshit and you know it.
I have have regarded your posts on “Cranky about the Culture” as some of the most poetic blog writing I’ve ever read.
But for some reason you are blind to the possible change that is right in front of you in the person of Barack.
Having John McCain and Sarah Palin running this country would be a travesty. Marx once said in effect that in history, everything happens twice, first as tragedy, the second time as farce.
The tragedy of George Bush and Dick Cheney would be repeated as the farce of John McCain and Sarah Palin.
I don’t know, Jon. Maybe this time it’s different. Maybe first was farce, and now comes tragedy.
I don’t know, Jon. Maybe this time it’s different. Maybe first was farce, and now comes tragedy.
Mason – I fear you’re right.
Mason – I fear you’re right.
I hope I’m not.
I hope I’m not.
McCain lies about not being one of those Wolfowitz Neocons. At least Palin is honest. She’s probably planning to put ViaGlobal in charge of Homeland Security if she and McCain are elected. Then, she’ll pardon Scruggs and make him attorney general, he can finish what Gonzales started.
McCain lies about not being one of those Wolfowitz Neocons. At least Palin is honest. She’s probably planning to put ViaGlobal in charge of Homeland Security if she and McCain are elected. Then, she’ll pardon Scruggs and make him attorney general, he can finish what Gonzales started.
Tell you what, Jon, you believe as you want about my small town, and I’ll be the one that lived it. I can’t get my point across, and somehow whatever life you lived convinces you that where I am somehow makes me less informed.
It’s a matter of trust.
I won’t answer the rest. Racism is a topic too painful for me because whether you can understand this or not, if you grow up with this as a child, no matter of what race, it is one of the most sorrowful subjects you can imagine.
What I saw shamed me to my sox, broke my heart, and made me have to accept very young that people will do awful things for fear.
And racism, at its roots, is fear.
So to believe that somehow I lived in that small town you imagine and didn’t fight it is a harsh condemnation from a hero. You and T-Bone rate because you are the incredible artists and minds that you are.
I don’t want to have this argument with you and yours. It hurts way too much.
So, I’ll confine my comments to the Cranky thread. It’s a topic where perhaps, I’m happier.
Tell you what, Jon, you believe as you want about my small town, and I’ll be the one that lived it. I can’t get my point across, and somehow whatever life you lived convinces you that where I am somehow makes me less informed.
It’s a matter of trust.
I won’t answer the rest. Racism is a topic too painful for me because whether you can understand this or not, if you grow up with this as a child, no matter of what race, it is one of the most sorrowful subjects you can imagine.
What I saw shamed me to my sox, broke my heart, and made me have to accept very young that people will do awful things for fear.
And racism, at its roots, is fear.
So to believe that somehow I lived in that small town you imagine and didn’t fight it is a harsh condemnation from a hero. You and T-Bone rate because you are the incredible artists and minds that you are.
I don’t want to have this argument with you and yours. It hurts way too much.
So, I’ll confine my comments to the Cranky thread. It’s a topic where perhaps, I’m happier.
Len- I would be dissapointed if you confined your comments to the Cranky string. What I want to have with you is an honest conversation about rebuilding this country. In my mind, John McCain is not the President that is interested in doing that and Barack Obama is. Tom Friedman summed it well this morning.
“Some McCain supporters criticize Obama for not having the steel in his belly to use force in the dangerous world we live in today. Well I know this: In order to use force, you have to have force. In order to exercise leverage, you have to have leverage.
I don’t know how much steel is in Obama’s belly, but I do know that the issues he is focusing on in this campaign — improving education and health care, dealing with the deficit and forging a real energy policy based on building a whole new energy infrastructure — are the only way we can put steel back into America’s spine. McCain, alas, has abandoned those issues for the culture-war strategy.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/opinion/14friedman.html
Len- I would be dissapointed if you confined your comments to the Cranky string. What I want to have with you is an honest conversation about rebuilding this country. In my mind, John McCain is not the President that is interested in doing that and Barack Obama is. Tom Friedman summed it well this morning.
“Some McCain supporters criticize Obama for not having the steel in his belly to use force in the dangerous world we live in today. Well I know this: In order to use force, you have to have force. In order to exercise leverage, you have to have leverage.
I don’t know how much steel is in Obama’s belly, but I do know that the issues he is focusing on in this campaign — improving education and health care, dealing with the deficit and forging a real energy policy based on building a whole new energy infrastructure — are the only way we can put steel back into America’s spine. McCain, alas, has abandoned those issues for the culture-war strategy.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/opinion/14friedman.html
Len,
I hope you don’t think you’re the only one on this blog who lived and grew up in a small town full of racism. I can assure you, that is not the case.
I’m not sure what point it is that you think Jon is missing.
What am I missing?
Len,
I hope you don’t think you’re the only one on this blog who lived and grew up in a small town full of racism. I can assure you, that is not the case.
I’m not sure what point it is that you think Jon is missing.
What am I missing?
I’m trying to have an honest conversation, Jon. I can’t bridge the race topic because I come from an entirely different background. I see very different things.
Now the rebuilding topic, here there is much consensus to be found.
Offtopic, but hopeful moment in the culture wars from my point of view. Last night my wife and daughter tangled and as a result, my 14 year old girl stomped out the front door in the rain with her bags. I caught up and she sat in the car to tell me her tale. Of course, no Dad with brains gets between the wife and daughter in these things but being the shoulder is ok. Then she said, “Oh Daddy, I forgot my CDs.” I said, “Then you’ll have to go back inside I guess.” It was a good way to segue back inside, then I noticed that in her left hand, she was carrying her old white Bible that her grandmother gave her.
We can’t always change what we see about the world, what is important is that we can share our values about what is important without challenging our humanity at the same time. I don’t think Obama can win if he or his keep insisting The Others are morons.
He can challenge that the values being valued are not right for the time and challenges we face together. I believe it better not to try to inveigle the opponents based on why they aren’t voting for a candidate but by inquiring of them what they will vote for and somehow making that less nuanced and more clear.
The problem is that now, like my daughter, both sides are stirred up past sensibility and willing to run away in the rain with nowhere to go. Maybe it is a good idea to inquire not what was left behind, but understand what was instinctively and lovingly taken.
Judging by the KOS, I fear that isn’t what is about the to happen, but if one side brings a lot of fear and the other side brings cookies, they’ll take the cookies. That is how Reagan beat Carter when Carter was telling the truth.
If I were Obama’s speechwriter, I’d write a different speech.
BTW: I started reading your paper on the New Federalism. As soon as done, I do want to comment on that. There were similar ideas at the Harvard Review that I responded a couple of years ago.
There are always scarcities.
I’m trying to have an honest conversation, Jon. I can’t bridge the race topic because I come from an entirely different background. I see very different things.
Now the rebuilding topic, here there is much consensus to be found.
Offtopic, but hopeful moment in the culture wars from my point of view. Last night my wife and daughter tangled and as a result, my 14 year old girl stomped out the front door in the rain with her bags. I caught up and she sat in the car to tell me her tale. Of course, no Dad with brains gets between the wife and daughter in these things but being the shoulder is ok. Then she said, “Oh Daddy, I forgot my CDs.” I said, “Then you’ll have to go back inside I guess.” It was a good way to segue back inside, then I noticed that in her left hand, she was carrying her old white Bible that her grandmother gave her.
We can’t always change what we see about the world, what is important is that we can share our values about what is important without challenging our humanity at the same time. I don’t think Obama can win if he or his keep insisting The Others are morons.
He can challenge that the values being valued are not right for the time and challenges we face together. I believe it better not to try to inveigle the opponents based on why they aren’t voting for a candidate but by inquiring of them what they will vote for and somehow making that less nuanced and more clear.
The problem is that now, like my daughter, both sides are stirred up past sensibility and willing to run away in the rain with nowhere to go. Maybe it is a good idea to inquire not what was left behind, but understand what was instinctively and lovingly taken.
Judging by the KOS, I fear that isn’t what is about the to happen, but if one side brings a lot of fear and the other side brings cookies, they’ll take the cookies. That is how Reagan beat Carter when Carter was telling the truth.
If I were Obama’s speechwriter, I’d write a different speech.
BTW: I started reading your paper on the New Federalism. As soon as done, I do want to comment on that. There were similar ideas at the Harvard Review that I responded a couple of years ago.
There are always scarcities.
Len
I very much appreciate the tone of your post above.
I come from a background very similar to yours.
My father was born in Macon, Georgia.
My grandfather, whose name I share, was the secretary of the Southern Baptist Convention for thirty-seven years.
Our family came to this land to escape religious persecution.
We have family in Mississippi, Georgia, North Carolina, and Tennessee, really all across the South.
I was raised in Fort Worth, Texas.
I also appreciate your attempt to calm things down.
As Percy Mayfield sang, the world is in an uproar, the danger zone is everywhere.
Come play music with us. You are more than welcome.
Peace
Len
I very much appreciate the tone of your post above.
I come from a background very similar to yours.
My father was born in Macon, Georgia.
My grandfather, whose name I share, was the secretary of the Southern Baptist Convention for thirty-seven years.
Our family came to this land to escape religious persecution.
We have family in Mississippi, Georgia, North Carolina, and Tennessee, really all across the South.
I was raised in Fort Worth, Texas.
I also appreciate your attempt to calm things down.
As Percy Mayfield sang, the world is in an uproar, the danger zone is everywhere.
Come play music with us. You are more than welcome.
Peace
Thank you, T-Bone. That means more to me than I know how to say. I had a terrible evening Saturday night laying in the swing out back staring up at gray southern skies. It’s windy and warm like tears.
I’ll tell some stories on the Cranky thread. It’s a better string for it. We have to fight The Blue Meanies. Stories help.
I once wondered why Beethoven’s last symphony was an Ode to Joy when he was too deaf to hear it.
Thank you, T-Bone. That means more to me than I know how to say. I had a terrible evening Saturday night laying in the swing out back staring up at gray southern skies. It’s windy and warm like tears.
I’ll tell some stories on the Cranky thread. It’s a better string for it. We have to fight The Blue Meanies. Stories help.
I once wondered why Beethoven’s last symphony was an Ode to Joy when he was too deaf to hear it.
@Len
I was reading a biography of Beethoven recently where the author made a point to explain that Beethoven’s talent was not nurtured but was beaten into him by his father and this was the reason Beethoven could not have relations with women. His genius was forced upon him and it was either learn or be punished.
As to racism I grew up in Madison Wisconsin. I’ve lived in the Washington D.C area, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Florida and have worked throughout the east coast from Maine to Florida. There is racism everywhere, in big cities and small towns and it’s not just black/white, but every group and color.
Obama needs to talk about the issues and ideas that bring people together and ignore racial attacks. I have never lived or worked in a place that wasn’t racist but people measure results not just skin tone.
@Len
I was reading a biography of Beethoven recently where the author made a point to explain that Beethoven’s talent was not nurtured but was beaten into him by his father and this was the reason Beethoven could not have relations with women. His genius was forced upon him and it was either learn or be punished.
As to racism I grew up in Madison Wisconsin. I’ve lived in the Washington D.C area, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Florida and have worked throughout the east coast from Maine to Florida. There is racism everywhere, in big cities and small towns and it’s not just black/white, but every group and color.
Obama needs to talk about the issues and ideas that bring people together and ignore racial attacks. I have never lived or worked in a place that wasn’t racist but people measure results not just skin tone.
Racists are real. I grew up in a family full of them. We were dirt poor. So were the blacks. When very young, we moved off the mountain away from the rock house where I was born, away from the German rocket scientists with the stiff funny accents into a house that was in the middle of sharecropper cotton fields in the valley. My Dad actually made the road with a bulldozer he borrowed.
Separate but equal.
If black neighbors wanted to talk to my Dad, they would not knock on our door. They would stand in front of the house until someone noticed them and Dad went out to speak.
I would find out later, they had all played together as children and knew each other. They had gone to war together, fought beside each other and when they came home, made their deals. It wasn’t perfect. It just was. When I was young, we picked cotton together and they would go back to their shacks with the cardboard nailed to the insides for insulation, and give me a watermelon to take to my Mom. Because sharecroppers get to keep all the money from a watermelon patch, they sold the rest.
Dad ran machine shops for different companies, but there was a black man that went with him to every job. I never knew his name. Everyone just called him Lightnin’. He was a big man and very soft spoken. When I was 18 and working at a plant where my Dad had a crew, some rough types were cornering me. I was the Typical Hair To My Shoulders Hippie Kid pushing a broom and mouthy. I mouthed off once too often and since Dad was at home sick, it was get even day there in the trailer plant.
Lightnin came over the top of the line and grabbed one and laid him down, and the rest ran. He asked me if I was ok, then walked back to what he was doing and didn’t say another word.
When Model Cities emptied the downtown black section, the usual name I won’t repeat here, they bought all of the newer houses in our neighborhood and resold them to the blacks. My father, who had beaten me witless with a belt one day when he saw me talking to the first black neighborhood buster, arranged for the house across from ours to go to Lightnin’ and his family. They lived like that for years until one day Lightnin died of a heart attack in front door in my Dad’s arms.
Their widows took care of each other until recently when his wife died. Mom misses her. I never once saw them in my father’s living room.
They lived separate but equal and as ignorant as it sounds, they made it work one person at a time. I can’t defend it or explain the contradictions. I’m just a witness. Mom still lives there and refuses to move from the house Dad built for Hers His and Ours.
Her neighbors look after her.
We may not change as fast as we want, but having grown from the time when my neighbors would not enter our living room, when there were signs over the water fountains, from a time when my Uncle told me after seeing me with my friend’s biracial wife that if I brought a n**** home, I was out of the family, from the time when the same skinny brother who was in our theatre groups had to walk between us in junior high to keep him from being beaten up talked two insane brothers from killing me with bricks one evening coming out of high school theatre, when all the mau mau and pushing and shoving stopped, when the names became just names because being afraid of names is voodoo, when we started playing together in bands because a black rhythm section and a white lead guitar player were hot stuff, when it became about liking our differences instead of fearing them,
the signs came down. The music was better. We moved to better neighborhoods, we knocked on doors, we ate together, we worship together and we get by.
There are still signs over some hearts but far fewer and they are easy to see.
But not as many.
When I looked out my front door and my children were playing with Lightnin’s grand children and no one noticed, I knew that in one place on one day for that day, one part of Martin Luther King’s dream had come true. And I saw him smile.
Peace at last. Thank God Almighty, Peace at last.
Racists are real. I grew up in a family full of them. We were dirt poor. So were the blacks. When very young, we moved off the mountain away from the rock house where I was born, away from the German rocket scientists with the stiff funny accents into a house that was in the middle of sharecropper cotton fields in the valley. My Dad actually made the road with a bulldozer he borrowed.
Separate but equal.
If black neighbors wanted to talk to my Dad, they would not knock on our door. They would stand in front of the house until someone noticed them and Dad went out to speak.
I would find out later, they had all played together as children and knew each other. They had gone to war together, fought beside each other and when they came home, made their deals. It wasn’t perfect. It just was. When I was young, we picked cotton together and they would go back to their shacks with the cardboard nailed to the insides for insulation, and give me a watermelon to take to my Mom. Because sharecroppers get to keep all the money from a watermelon patch, they sold the rest.
Dad ran machine shops for different companies, but there was a black man that went with him to every job. I never knew his name. Everyone just called him Lightnin’. He was a big man and very soft spoken. When I was 18 and working at a plant where my Dad had a crew, some rough types were cornering me. I was the Typical Hair To My Shoulders Hippie Kid pushing a broom and mouthy. I mouthed off once too often and since Dad was at home sick, it was get even day there in the trailer plant.
Lightnin came over the top of the line and grabbed one and laid him down, and the rest ran. He asked me if I was ok, then walked back to what he was doing and didn’t say another word.
When Model Cities emptied the downtown black section, the usual name I won’t repeat here, they bought all of the newer houses in our neighborhood and resold them to the blacks. My father, who had beaten me witless with a belt one day when he saw me talking to the first black neighborhood buster, arranged for the house across from ours to go to Lightnin’ and his family. They lived like that for years until one day Lightnin died of a heart attack in front door in my Dad’s arms.
Their widows took care of each other until recently when his wife died. Mom misses her. I never once saw them in my father’s living room.
They lived separate but equal and as ignorant as it sounds, they made it work one person at a time. I can’t defend it or explain the contradictions. I’m just a witness. Mom still lives there and refuses to move from the house Dad built for Hers His and Ours.
Her neighbors look after her.
We may not change as fast as we want, but having grown from the time when my neighbors would not enter our living room, when there were signs over the water fountains, from a time when my Uncle told me after seeing me with my friend’s biracial wife that if I brought a n**** home, I was out of the family, from the time when the same skinny brother who was in our theatre groups had to walk between us in junior high to keep him from being beaten up talked two insane brothers from killing me with bricks one evening coming out of high school theatre, when all the mau mau and pushing and shoving stopped, when the names became just names because being afraid of names is voodoo, when we started playing together in bands because a black rhythm section and a white lead guitar player were hot stuff, when it became about liking our differences instead of fearing them,
the signs came down. The music was better. We moved to better neighborhoods, we knocked on doors, we ate together, we worship together and we get by.
There are still signs over some hearts but far fewer and they are easy to see.
But not as many.
When I looked out my front door and my children were playing with Lightnin’s grand children and no one noticed, I knew that in one place on one day for that day, one part of Martin Luther King’s dream had come true. And I saw him smile.
Peace at last. Thank God Almighty, Peace at last.
Thank you Len.
Thank you Len.