Iraq for Sale

The U.S. wants a relatively loose agreement that allows us to keep troops in Iraq.

But the prime minister is under intense political pressure to take a hard line against the Americans, even as his government engages in the back-and-forth of negotiations. Graffiti can be seen on the walls in Shiite districts of Baghdad saying, “Iraq for sale: See Maliki.”

To further prove his independance, Malaki is getting ready to sign a big oil deal with China. Russia is probably next. We spend $2 Trillion on what Greenspan called “a war for oil”, and our global rivals get half the oil. We continue to live in this illusion that our military power gains us some global mercantile advantage.

Uncle Sucker.

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0 Responses to Iraq for Sale

  1. Rick Turner says:

    Where is Morgan?

  2. Rick Turner says:

    Where is Morgan?

  3. Daniel says:

    We can safely assume Iraqi government was set up with the idea in mind that they’d be very agreeable to US demands. If deals with Russia or China were to happen, and the US gets screwed on its investment, would it be un-realistic to expect further military/covert operations in the interests of undermining those deals?

    I also wonder how it would be played out in the media? The current preferred narrative is very anti-Russial; I can only imagine how it will go should Russia benefit at US expense.

  4. Daniel says:

    We can safely assume Iraqi government was set up with the idea in mind that they’d be very agreeable to US demands. If deals with Russia or China were to happen, and the US gets screwed on its investment, would it be un-realistic to expect further military/covert operations in the interests of undermining those deals?

    I also wonder how it would be played out in the media? The current preferred narrative is very anti-Russial; I can only imagine how it will go should Russia benefit at US expense.

  5. Daniel says:

    *anti-Russia

  6. Daniel says:

    *anti-Russia

  7. Alex Bowles says:

    Rick – PDFTT

    Daniel – In just one more example of how the admin blew it, it’s impossible for us to say that the oil is ours, or that the war was an investment in our own security. It was never about the oil, remember? It was all about WMD, 9/11 2, taking the fight to Al Quaida so we didn’t have to fight them here, establishing a new and freedom loving democratic order, sending a message to tyrants everywhere, etc.

    ‘No blood for oil’ was the shrill criticism from the radical left. The sensible and well intentioned Republicans assured us that oil had nothing to do with it, except maybe to pay for the six months or so that it would take to get this freedom loving, flower throwing democracy off the ground (see Wolfowitz for details).

    The real irony would be France deciding to buy a long term contract to offset the instability of energy from the Caspian. Then we can add them to the list of winners, which, so far, includes Iran, Russia, and China.

    Freedom Fries for everybody.

  8. Alex Bowles says:

    Rick – PDFTT

    Daniel – In just one more example of how the admin blew it, it’s impossible for us to say that the oil is ours, or that the war was an investment in our own security. It was never about the oil, remember? It was all about WMD, 9/11 2, taking the fight to Al Quaida so we didn’t have to fight them here, establishing a new and freedom loving democratic order, sending a message to tyrants everywhere, etc.

    ‘No blood for oil’ was the shrill criticism from the radical left. The sensible and well intentioned Republicans assured us that oil had nothing to do with it, except maybe to pay for the six months or so that it would take to get this freedom loving, flower throwing democracy off the ground (see Wolfowitz for details).

    The real irony would be France deciding to buy a long term contract to offset the instability of energy from the Caspian. Then we can add them to the list of winners, which, so far, includes Iran, Russia, and China.

    Freedom Fries for everybody.

  9. Alex Bowles says:

    oops – an investment in our own ‘energy security’, not just plain old security.

  10. Alex Bowles says:

    oops – an investment in our own ‘energy security’, not just plain old security.

  11. len bullard says:

    Right on schedule as predicted.

    I wish that made me feel better.

    No, Daniel. Covert ops are of no value in these kinds of deals. Only Money Matters.

  12. len bullard says:

    Right on schedule as predicted.

    I wish that made me feel better.

    No, Daniel. Covert ops are of no value in these kinds of deals. Only Money Matters.

  13. Daniel says:

    @ Alex: You’re right, a deal involving France would be highly ironic!

    Not to overlook or downplay the many blunders and shameful events that have taken place because of the invasion, but the amount of effort that went into deceit and PR angers me beyond words. That it might bite them in the ass going forward gives me a severe sense of Schadenfreude.

  14. Daniel says:

    @ Alex: You’re right, a deal involving France would be highly ironic!

    Not to overlook or downplay the many blunders and shameful events that have taken place because of the invasion, but the amount of effort that went into deceit and PR angers me beyond words. That it might bite them in the ass going forward gives me a severe sense of Schadenfreude.

  15. Rick Turner says:

    Oh, I get it…

    We gave China a whole bunch of money we don’t have for crap that we’ll have to put in landfills soon so they could out-flank us buying oil from the Iraqis…and we borrowed a whole bunch of money from China to pay Blackwater to do it all! Brilliant!

    Errr, Morgan? Where are you? I want to get your take on this war for oil for someone else bit…

  16. Rick Turner says:

    Oh, I get it…

    We gave China a whole bunch of money we don’t have for crap that we’ll have to put in landfills soon so they could out-flank us buying oil from the Iraqis…and we borrowed a whole bunch of money from China to pay Blackwater to do it all! Brilliant!

    Errr, Morgan? Where are you? I want to get your take on this war for oil for someone else bit…

  17. Alex Bowles says:

    Rick,

    PDFTT means ‘Please Don’t Feed The Trolls’.

    And the money borrowed didn’t come from China (not yet, anyway). It came from budget deficits that will land on our kid’s heads. Most of the estimated $1 trillion damages have yet to be incurred – they’re simply the obligations we’re now saddled with after tens of thousands of troops got seriously maimed in the line of duty, as well as the interest payments that will be due on whatever money has to be borrowed to pay these costs, since we never actually had the money in the bank, or room in our tax policies, given the existing fuckage with our current entitlement programs.

    China may end up buying that debt, or the Russians, or perhaps anyone foolish enough to not see that we’re constantly eroding the value of our own money to limit the actual value of our obligations.

    Honestly, the real nightmare scenario is not one where we’re in hoc to the rest of the world, but one in which no one wants to hold out T-Bills in the first place.

  18. Alex Bowles says:

    Rick,

    PDFTT means ‘Please Don’t Feed The Trolls’.

    And the money borrowed didn’t come from China (not yet, anyway). It came from budget deficits that will land on our kid’s heads. Most of the estimated $1 trillion damages have yet to be incurred – they’re simply the obligations we’re now saddled with after tens of thousands of troops got seriously maimed in the line of duty, as well as the interest payments that will be due on whatever money has to be borrowed to pay these costs, since we never actually had the money in the bank, or room in our tax policies, given the existing fuckage with our current entitlement programs.

    China may end up buying that debt, or the Russians, or perhaps anyone foolish enough to not see that we’re constantly eroding the value of our own money to limit the actual value of our obligations.

    Honestly, the real nightmare scenario is not one where we’re in hoc to the rest of the world, but one in which no one wants to hold out T-Bills in the first place.

  19. Rick Turner says:

    Got it, Alex. Understood all around. End of an empire it is…and maybe that’s a damned good thing for those who don’t get hurt in the street fights. We got seriously sucker punched by the Commies is what it looks like to me. Not that they’re very orthodox Commies anymore. Marx and Lenin must be twisting in their tombs.

  20. Rick Turner says:

    Got it, Alex. Understood all around. End of an empire it is…and maybe that’s a damned good thing for those who don’t get hurt in the street fights. We got seriously sucker punched by the Commies is what it looks like to me. Not that they’re very orthodox Commies anymore. Marx and Lenin must be twisting in their tombs.

  21. Jon Taplin says:

    Rick-I got sick of Morgan. I feel the discussions have been more on point without him in the last week .Do you really want him back?

  22. Jon Taplin says:

    Rick-I got sick of Morgan. I feel the discussions have been more on point without him in the last week .Do you really want him back?

  23. len bullard says:

    They’re thugs, Rick, pure and simple.

    And there is a clue about what is in store for those of us who don’t think we’ll ever be hurt in a street fight. We’re not returning to the Cold War. This looks more like WWI, nationalism with gangsters at the helm. Rats.

    Looks like the FAA grid just went south. Glad I drove my car to wonderful city. I really don’t want to be stuck in Hartsfield.

  24. len bullard says:

    They’re thugs, Rick, pure and simple.

    And there is a clue about what is in store for those of us who don’t think we’ll ever be hurt in a street fight. We’re not returning to the Cold War. This looks more like WWI, nationalism with gangsters at the helm. Rats.

    Looks like the FAA grid just went south. Glad I drove my car to wonderful city. I really don’t want to be stuck in Hartsfield.

  25. Jon Taplin says:

    Len- We’re getting screwed by being so economically dependant on the Chinese and Russians for our financing needs.
    http://jtaplin.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/permanent-war-economy/

  26. Jon Taplin says:

    Len- We’re getting screwed by being so economically dependant on the Chinese and Russians for our financing needs.
    http://jtaplin.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/permanent-war-economy/

  27. Zhirem says:

    Uncle Sucker? If you mean our collective American asses, then yes, you are right.

    If you mean the administration, you are fooling yourself. More like: Uncle Benefactor. Follow the friggin’ money. You know, like the MSM does not (can’t or won’t, not to mention GE owning NBC, MSNBC, etc.), because you have the attention span of something greater than a gnat.

    I think Jon is observant, and to my (admittedly) limited knowledge and experience, correct with some of his previous postings.

    The true tale of the tape of our foreign follies, and the butcher’s bill are forthcoming. But they are not likely something we will see within the next 12 to 24 months. It will come much later, when Bu$h is ensconced in his new Paraguay ranch (still without horses most likely), and when he will be beyond extradition.

    Blackwater, KBR, Halliburton, et. al…

    Who bilked the Americans? Not the Iraqis. Not the Chinese. Not the Russians.

    The American administration, and their cronies bilked the American People. All of us. And we have yet to learn of the full extent of that crime. And crime may be a moniker wholly inadequate to convey the depth and breadth of depravity and malice.

    Unfortunately, we will not see justice done. The war criminals of our country will be allowed to enjoy their ill-gotten gains. They will be allowed long lives with the fruits of their greed, bloodlust and insanity.

    “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and His justice cannot sleep forever.” – Thomas Jefferson.

    Would that His justice was swift, accurate, and terrible.

    – Zhirem
    (been lurking for a while, not posting much at all)

  28. Zhirem says:

    Uncle Sucker? If you mean our collective American asses, then yes, you are right.

    If you mean the administration, you are fooling yourself. More like: Uncle Benefactor. Follow the friggin’ money. You know, like the MSM does not (can’t or won’t, not to mention GE owning NBC, MSNBC, etc.), because you have the attention span of something greater than a gnat.

    I think Jon is observant, and to my (admittedly) limited knowledge and experience, correct with some of his previous postings.

    The true tale of the tape of our foreign follies, and the butcher’s bill are forthcoming. But they are not likely something we will see within the next 12 to 24 months. It will come much later, when Bu$h is ensconced in his new Paraguay ranch (still without horses most likely), and when he will be beyond extradition.

    Blackwater, KBR, Halliburton, et. al…

    Who bilked the Americans? Not the Iraqis. Not the Chinese. Not the Russians.

    The American administration, and their cronies bilked the American People. All of us. And we have yet to learn of the full extent of that crime. And crime may be a moniker wholly inadequate to convey the depth and breadth of depravity and malice.

    Unfortunately, we will not see justice done. The war criminals of our country will be allowed to enjoy their ill-gotten gains. They will be allowed long lives with the fruits of their greed, bloodlust and insanity.

    “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and His justice cannot sleep forever.” – Thomas Jefferson.

    Would that His justice was swift, accurate, and terrible.

    – Zhirem
    (been lurking for a while, not posting much at all)

  29. Morgan Warstler says:

    LOL. Debate me! C’mon man, where’s your intellectual rigor?

    Seriously Jon, we’ll get along fine. I just hit back harder than you hit. You HATE that I question the basic greed your generation wallows in… you are the PERFECT SYMBOL of that greed, you want to be allowed to hand down bon mots from the clouds, but you generation is in the gutter. Show me ONE THING, you have ever advocated where your generation is the one paying the costs of your prescription.

    If you were an honest intellectual, you’d construct your arguments to SHOW a priori that you gain nothing BEFORE you start inventing policy. Until that time, “greedy old hippie,” kills every argument you make. It tarnishes your thoughts to everyone under 40.

    It’ll totally worth dinner! You just need to come ready for a mental beating. The FUNNY thing is, you’ll find out how much we agree on, because once you have to actually answer questions and deal with real cross examination, you’ll see I think like you, I’m just more rigorous, and don’t hold on to mushy logic.

    I want almost all the things you want. End the war. Alt.energy. Radically remake education. Return power to local communities. Taxes increase or decrease, but categorically, IN LINE WITH SPENDING.

    Hell, if Obama just says he’ll do like Bill Clinton, I can support him! That’s not hard!

    You just don’t like being told that you aren’t a good spokesman for the things you want to speak about. If I were coaching your political team, everytime you got up to speak,you’d be forced to talk about extending social security age limits, splitting medicare based on the pool size. That’s your message. Act your age. Argue your generation is vibrant and therefore can work 5 years longer! That Viagra isn’t supposed to be covered by health care plans, unless birth control is. That Mike Milken cured prostrate cancer, not socialist medicine. Those are the things you are believable about. You are a credible source!

    Let the young people say we should care for you old hippies. Buy all your healthcare. Keep your retirement going as long as possible.

    Prove to everyone you are worth saving. But first, let’s DEBATE!

  30. Morgan Warstler says:

    LOL. Debate me! C’mon man, where’s your intellectual rigor?

    Seriously Jon, we’ll get along fine. I just hit back harder than you hit. You HATE that I question the basic greed your generation wallows in… you are the PERFECT SYMBOL of that greed, you want to be allowed to hand down bon mots from the clouds, but you generation is in the gutter. Show me ONE THING, you have ever advocated where your generation is the one paying the costs of your prescription.

    If you were an honest intellectual, you’d construct your arguments to SHOW a priori that you gain nothing BEFORE you start inventing policy. Until that time, “greedy old hippie,” kills every argument you make. It tarnishes your thoughts to everyone under 40.

    It’ll totally worth dinner! You just need to come ready for a mental beating. The FUNNY thing is, you’ll find out how much we agree on, because once you have to actually answer questions and deal with real cross examination, you’ll see I think like you, I’m just more rigorous, and don’t hold on to mushy logic.

    I want almost all the things you want. End the war. Alt.energy. Radically remake education. Return power to local communities. Taxes increase or decrease, but categorically, IN LINE WITH SPENDING.

    Hell, if Obama just says he’ll do like Bill Clinton, I can support him! That’s not hard!

    You just don’t like being told that you aren’t a good spokesman for the things you want to speak about. If I were coaching your political team, everytime you got up to speak,you’d be forced to talk about extending social security age limits, splitting medicare based on the pool size. That’s your message. Act your age. Argue your generation is vibrant and therefore can work 5 years longer! That Viagra isn’t supposed to be covered by health care plans, unless birth control is. That Mike Milken cured prostrate cancer, not socialist medicine. Those are the things you are believable about. You are a credible source!

    Let the young people say we should care for you old hippies. Buy all your healthcare. Keep your retirement going as long as possible.

    Prove to everyone you are worth saving. But first, let’s DEBATE!

  31. Rachel says:

    Jon said: “We continue to live in this illusion that our military power gains us some global mercantile advantage.”

    What it mostly does is feed resentment and bitterness (see last week and this week in Afghanistan).

    Zhirem said “The true tale of the tape of our foreign follies, and the butcher’s bill are forthcoming. But they are not likely something we will see within the next 12 to 24 months. ”

    Actually it has been written. The most depressing book I’ve read in recent weeks is “Imperial Life in the Emerald City” by Rajiv Chandrasekaran. If ever there was an argument for why the US is unable – ever – to fight a war and win in the long term, that book is it. Even more depressingly, I note the new US embassy in Iraq seems to be a continuation of the trend.

    If Afghanistan is anything like the situation Chandrasekaran describes in Iraq, there’s no hope.

  32. Rachel says:

    Jon said: “We continue to live in this illusion that our military power gains us some global mercantile advantage.”

    What it mostly does is feed resentment and bitterness (see last week and this week in Afghanistan).

    Zhirem said “The true tale of the tape of our foreign follies, and the butcher’s bill are forthcoming. But they are not likely something we will see within the next 12 to 24 months. ”

    Actually it has been written. The most depressing book I’ve read in recent weeks is “Imperial Life in the Emerald City” by Rajiv Chandrasekaran. If ever there was an argument for why the US is unable – ever – to fight a war and win in the long term, that book is it. Even more depressingly, I note the new US embassy in Iraq seems to be a continuation of the trend.

    If Afghanistan is anything like the situation Chandrasekaran describes in Iraq, there’s no hope.

  33. Jon Taplin says:

    Morgan wants to get back on the island. Do we let him in or not?

  34. Jon Taplin says:

    Morgan wants to get back on the island. Do we let him in or not?

  35. Jon Taplin says:

    Zhirem- What a way to return! It’s like Popeye Doyle walking into the barroom in French Connection.

    Bravo. I think your point is right, but if history is a guide, George Bush won’t have to go to Paraguay. Hell, Spiro Agnew probably died on a Palm Springs golf course after 15 years of quiet retirement.

    The question is how do get people to understand they been hornswaggled by crooks like Cheney and Bush?

  36. Jon Taplin says:

    Zhirem- What a way to return! It’s like Popeye Doyle walking into the barroom in French Connection.

    Bravo. I think your point is right, but if history is a guide, George Bush won’t have to go to Paraguay. Hell, Spiro Agnew probably died on a Palm Springs golf course after 15 years of quiet retirement.

    The question is how do get people to understand they been hornswaggled by crooks like Cheney and Bush?

  37. Rick Turner says:

    My asking for Morgan was pure sarcasm, by the way. He was so sure that the payoff for our spending two or three trillion bucks on the war would be guaranteed gas at the pump, and maybe he’s right about gas at the pump…but the pump isn’t going to be on US soil. Better get good at reading Mandarin pictographs or Cyrillic if you want to fill ‘er up. Bamboozled, we’ve been. Making the world safe for oligarchy and plutocracy is what we’ve been up to.

    The Bush and Cheney crowd don’t really give a shit; they’re well insulated from the effects of their shenannigans and the blood shed of innocents and those suckered into doing their will. Besides, their friends, the Saudis will take care of them, and I’d rather see Cheney out falconing than with a shotgun in his hands.

    Just don’t attend any funerals or wedding parties in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Pakistan and you may be OK for a while…but any crowd over about five seems “fair game” for a few American bombs or cruise missiles. Duck and cover…

  38. Rick Turner says:

    My asking for Morgan was pure sarcasm, by the way. He was so sure that the payoff for our spending two or three trillion bucks on the war would be guaranteed gas at the pump, and maybe he’s right about gas at the pump…but the pump isn’t going to be on US soil. Better get good at reading Mandarin pictographs or Cyrillic if you want to fill ‘er up. Bamboozled, we’ve been. Making the world safe for oligarchy and plutocracy is what we’ve been up to.

    The Bush and Cheney crowd don’t really give a shit; they’re well insulated from the effects of their shenannigans and the blood shed of innocents and those suckered into doing their will. Besides, their friends, the Saudis will take care of them, and I’d rather see Cheney out falconing than with a shotgun in his hands.

    Just don’t attend any funerals or wedding parties in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Pakistan and you may be OK for a while…but any crowd over about five seems “fair game” for a few American bombs or cruise missiles. Duck and cover…

  39. Rick Turner says:

    By the way, I am in no way defending the actions of the thugs in Moscow or Beijing. They’re gutter snipes of the lowest order, to be sure. We just shouldn’t be playing their game.

    If the US could just lead the world by sterling example…well, that would be unique and perhaps effective. But no, instead we’re like a petulant and immature teenager (yes, that’s an obvious redundancy) going around destroying things because we didn’t get what we wanted, thereby guaranteeing that mom and dad will deny us what we want any time in the foreseeable future. “If I can’t have it right now, I’m going to break it so nobody can have it ever!” Yep, that’s really smart thinking… But in this case, we’re breaking Iraq, and someone else might actually be able to repair it and have it. Double hurt…stamp feet…tear out hair…retire to ranch… S’OK, T Boone will provide some nice wind generated electricity to power up the air conditioners in Crawford. Might need ‘em; it’s getting warmer there these days… Wonder why?

  40. Rick Turner says:

    By the way, I am in no way defending the actions of the thugs in Moscow or Beijing. They’re gutter snipes of the lowest order, to be sure. We just shouldn’t be playing their game.

    If the US could just lead the world by sterling example…well, that would be unique and perhaps effective. But no, instead we’re like a petulant and immature teenager (yes, that’s an obvious redundancy) going around destroying things because we didn’t get what we wanted, thereby guaranteeing that mom and dad will deny us what we want any time in the foreseeable future. “If I can’t have it right now, I’m going to break it so nobody can have it ever!” Yep, that’s really smart thinking… But in this case, we’re breaking Iraq, and someone else might actually be able to repair it and have it. Double hurt…stamp feet…tear out hair…retire to ranch… S’OK, T Boone will provide some nice wind generated electricity to power up the air conditioners in Crawford. Might need ‘em; it’s getting warmer there these days… Wonder why?

  41. len bullard says:

    @jon: I agree.

    @rick: I agree.

    I started protesting the war the day they said ‘pre-emption’. That abandoned a core value that kept us flush. OTOH, those planes crashing, buildings falling, sounds of people jumping to their deaths holding hands, well, strong juju, that.

    But you rate an adult by their ability to discipline their response and these guys were just waiting for an excuse to start the fight, lied about the WMD, and then didn’t even bring home the booty. Not only imperialism, but incompetent imperialism.

    We’ve been a pirate nation for most of our history (See Declaration of 1763). Our Declaration of Indenpendence is signed by pot-smoking scalawags.

    But they were competent.

    We’ll forgive anyone who gets rich enough. Ask the Kennedy’s about Old Joe. But we don’t forgive incompetents who lose the money.

    BTW Rick, the ranch in Crawford is one of the most energy efficient in America. G.W. may be a dumb a** but Laura isn’t.

  42. len bullard says:

    @jon: I agree.

    @rick: I agree.

    I started protesting the war the day they said ‘pre-emption’. That abandoned a core value that kept us flush. OTOH, those planes crashing, buildings falling, sounds of people jumping to their deaths holding hands, well, strong juju, that.

    But you rate an adult by their ability to discipline their response and these guys were just waiting for an excuse to start the fight, lied about the WMD, and then didn’t even bring home the booty. Not only imperialism, but incompetent imperialism.

    We’ve been a pirate nation for most of our history (See Declaration of 1763). Our Declaration of Indenpendence is signed by pot-smoking scalawags.

    But they were competent.

    We’ll forgive anyone who gets rich enough. Ask the Kennedy’s about Old Joe. But we don’t forgive incompetents who lose the money.

    BTW Rick, the ranch in Crawford is one of the most energy efficient in America. G.W. may be a dumb a** but Laura isn’t.

  43. Fentex says:

    It is easy enough to skip a post from someone if you chose to turn a deaf ear to them, I vote for letting anyone post if all that annoys is their opinion (rather than foul language).

    Speaking of opinions, I’m quite happy for the U.S to get economically punished for it’s conquest of Iraq. I hope it does cost the U.S a great deal and hurt and bleed for some time.

    The conquest of Iraq and attendant murder of thousands of people was a crime, the attempt to steal Iraqi resources a crime. I’m happy to see events turn against the criminal.

  44. Fentex says:

    It is easy enough to skip a post from someone if you chose to turn a deaf ear to them, I vote for letting anyone post if all that annoys is their opinion (rather than foul language).

    Speaking of opinions, I’m quite happy for the U.S to get economically punished for it’s conquest of Iraq. I hope it does cost the U.S a great deal and hurt and bleed for some time.

    The conquest of Iraq and attendant murder of thousands of people was a crime, the attempt to steal Iraqi resources a crime. I’m happy to see events turn against the criminal.

  45. Alex Bowles says:

    Jon,

    The call on Morgan is yours to make, however, you may want to check with your doctor about blood pressure risks before you do. The gaskets are yours to blow.

  46. Alex Bowles says:

    Jon,

    The call on Morgan is yours to make, however, you may want to check with your doctor about blood pressure risks before you do. The gaskets are yours to blow.

  47. Daniel says:

    “Not only imperialism, but incompetent imperialism.”

    I’m sure somebody made a buck off of it, though …

  48. Daniel says:

    “Not only imperialism, but incompetent imperialism.”

    I’m sure somebody made a buck off of it, though …

  49. len bullard says:

    Money is just stuff. We have lots of stuff.

    I’m sitting in a big city in beautiful hotel surrounded by lots of pretty women and rich businessmen. At night, I’m looking at my daughter’s facebook page hoping she comes on to chat with me.

    Let them have the money. We’ll print more. ;-)

  50. len bullard says:

    Money is just stuff. We have lots of stuff.

    I’m sitting in a big city in beautiful hotel surrounded by lots of pretty women and rich businessmen. At night, I’m looking at my daughter’s facebook page hoping she comes on to chat with me.

    Let them have the money. We’ll print more. ;-)

  51. Rick Turner says:

    The ranch in Crawford being energy efficient is a good thing. But then it’s pretty easy for the rich to pay for that kind of upgrade to properties. What America needs is to spend about what has been spent so far on the Iraq war on alternative energy, energy efficiency, and all that for US citizens. I think that two or three trillion would have been much better spent at home where it would do good for centuries rather than rotting, rusting, and decaying with death and destruction in the desert right now. That money spent in Iraq has NOT been an investment in our future; it’s been pissed into the hot sand. It’s red ink. It’s gone. No more of that, please. Time to actually invest in our future, not spend our kids’ future.

  52. Rick Turner says:

    The ranch in Crawford being energy efficient is a good thing. But then it’s pretty easy for the rich to pay for that kind of upgrade to properties. What America needs is to spend about what has been spent so far on the Iraq war on alternative energy, energy efficiency, and all that for US citizens. I think that two or three trillion would have been much better spent at home where it would do good for centuries rather than rotting, rusting, and decaying with death and destruction in the desert right now. That money spent in Iraq has NOT been an investment in our future; it’s been pissed into the hot sand. It’s red ink. It’s gone. No more of that, please. Time to actually invest in our future, not spend our kids’ future.

  53. Jon Taplin says:

    Rick, Alex, Fentex- As you can see, I’ve decided to let Morgan back in. I just had a check up and My blood pressure is in good shape. I just hope he brings something original to the discussion and acts like a civilized adult instead of a spoiled teenager.

  54. Jon Taplin says:

    Rick, Alex, Fentex- As you can see, I’ve decided to let Morgan back in. I just had a check up and My blood pressure is in good shape. I just hope he brings something original to the discussion and acts like a civilized adult instead of a spoiled teenager.

  55. len bullard says:

    I couldn’t agree more, Rick. My guess is offline, you’d find so does Laura Bush, but short of poisoning her husband, she can only improve her part of the desert. So I hold her up as a good example so others might do the same. Once they share that goal, then they will look for ways to get that done. Then they will look for others with the same values.

    In my 54 years, I’ve never found a way to force some one else to value what I value except to show by example what that value provides in return for what I give up.

  56. len bullard says:

    I couldn’t agree more, Rick. My guess is offline, you’d find so does Laura Bush, but short of poisoning her husband, she can only improve her part of the desert. So I hold her up as a good example so others might do the same. Once they share that goal, then they will look for ways to get that done. Then they will look for others with the same values.

    In my 54 years, I’ve never found a way to force some one else to value what I value except to show by example what that value provides in return for what I give up.

  57. Ken Ballweg says:

    Yes Morgan’s back, and I notice that he’s right “on message”.

    Really Morgan, think about doing one post where you make a menu of all your memes and number them. Then you could just reply with a simple #4 (which would equal “You whiney oldsters don’t have a clue.”)

    Hummm, now that I think about it, that wouldn’t work. No caps for numbers. Oh well, it was a thought.

  58. Ken Ballweg says:

    Yes Morgan’s back, and I notice that he’s right “on message”.

    Really Morgan, think about doing one post where you make a menu of all your memes and number them. Then you could just reply with a simple #4 (which would equal “You whiney oldsters don’t have a clue.”)

    Hummm, now that I think about it, that wouldn’t work. No caps for numbers. Oh well, it was a thought.

  59. Zhirem says:

    Rachel: I will read that work. I have not yet to this point. However, my point is, even the British Nobel economist in his estimate of $3 Trillion if we stopped and got out completely last December, is incorrect. My reasoning behind this point is that we do not know the true costs yet, and I do not believe we will until Iraq is in our rear-view mirror for several months, and the number-crunchers get a crack at the totality of the data. That said, your point is not lost on me, and I have some reading to do.

    Jon, thanks for the kind words. The French Connection is one of my faves, and I have nowhere NEAR that level of presence. But I appreciate the comment either way. Love the blog, and even when lurking, I have been following with continued interest. Despite your detractor, I think that your ideas deserve some sunshine and more play than they likely receive at present. The great sadness of reality is that this is exactly the type of discussion that *should* be going on all over this country right now. Listen to some of our great Presidential orators of the past, and listen to examples of (what passes for) the current crop of pols and pundits and one can see a clear line of distinction. From “the better angels of our nature” to “how to win an argument with a liberal while wielding a baseball bat”. There are cultural reverberations here that are becoming increasingly apparent. (Yes, I followed those posts too, and agree.)

    Alex: I agree with the ironic question you pose, but I would ask that you reflect that when the UN did investigations into Saddam’s oil-for-food program, they found both France and Russia skirting the rules and outside the International law/agreement that was in place. Ironic perhaps, but certainly not without recent historical precedent.

    Len: I have been following your comments as well, and it certainly appears that you have been thinking about things. I look forward to more of your observations and opinions. We need more well-reasoned and enlightened discourse.

    Fentex: While I share some of your sentiment, the concept of collective punishment is on its face immoral. I too believe that there should be a reckoning, but I truly believe that the spirit of the American People is a noble one. I use as an example the private donations total for the recent tsunami victims a few moons ago. I think the total was well-over $2 billion dollars. Initially, Shrubya was going to send them $40 million dollars. So, my point is, the reckoning is due, but the tragedy of the reality is that those most responsible, who most earned their punishment will be the last to ever be held accountable.

    To us all: Thank you for the continued discussion. If nothing else, I take great joy from this site in that there *ARE* people out there having these discussions, and if nothing else, we few will filter out into the rest of society and at least give these insights and observations some air-time, even if we have no broadcasting ability beyond our personal conversations and debates.

    – Zhirem

  60. Zhirem says:

    Rachel: I will read that work. I have not yet to this point. However, my point is, even the British Nobel economist in his estimate of $3 Trillion if we stopped and got out completely last December, is incorrect. My reasoning behind this point is that we do not know the true costs yet, and I do not believe we will until Iraq is in our rear-view mirror for several months, and the number-crunchers get a crack at the totality of the data. That said, your point is not lost on me, and I have some reading to do.

    Jon, thanks for the kind words. The French Connection is one of my faves, and I have nowhere NEAR that level of presence. But I appreciate the comment either way. Love the blog, and even when lurking, I have been following with continued interest. Despite your detractor, I think that your ideas deserve some sunshine and more play than they likely receive at present. The great sadness of reality is that this is exactly the type of discussion that *should* be going on all over this country right now. Listen to some of our great Presidential orators of the past, and listen to examples of (what passes for) the current crop of pols and pundits and one can see a clear line of distinction. From “the better angels of our nature” to “how to win an argument with a liberal while wielding a baseball bat”. There are cultural reverberations here that are becoming increasingly apparent. (Yes, I followed those posts too, and agree.)

    Alex: I agree with the ironic question you pose, but I would ask that you reflect that when the UN did investigations into Saddam’s oil-for-food program, they found both France and Russia skirting the rules and outside the International law/agreement that was in place. Ironic perhaps, but certainly not without recent historical precedent.

    Len: I have been following your comments as well, and it certainly appears that you have been thinking about things. I look forward to more of your observations and opinions. We need more well-reasoned and enlightened discourse.

    Fentex: While I share some of your sentiment, the concept of collective punishment is on its face immoral. I too believe that there should be a reckoning, but I truly believe that the spirit of the American People is a noble one. I use as an example the private donations total for the recent tsunami victims a few moons ago. I think the total was well-over $2 billion dollars. Initially, Shrubya was going to send them $40 million dollars. So, my point is, the reckoning is due, but the tragedy of the reality is that those most responsible, who most earned their punishment will be the last to ever be held accountable.

    To us all: Thank you for the continued discussion. If nothing else, I take great joy from this site in that there *ARE* people out there having these discussions, and if nothing else, we few will filter out into the rest of society and at least give these insights and observations some air-time, even if we have no broadcasting ability beyond our personal conversations and debates.

    – Zhirem

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