The Fascist Impulse
The first time this blog ever started attracting right wing posters was when I attacked Jonah Goldberg’s book, Liberal Fascism. I have always been fascinated by the bully boys who are attracted to the military solution to every problem, but would never think of joining the Army themselves. The British historian Hobsbawm described them as ” a relatively small, but absolutely numerous, minority for whom uniform and discipline, sacrifice-of self and others- and blood arms and power were what made masculine life worth living.”
Our notorious Morgan Warstler arrived on these pages about that time. He is an egotistical twit, who for reasons known to him only, refuses to admit that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. He has managed to drive some important contributors to this blog off the site with his bad manners, but for reasons I can’t really explain, I allow him to keep posting. Now with the Russia-Georgia conflict in the news, the bully boys like Morgan are seeing John McCain’s war mongering campaign as the vehicle for their martial solutions to the world’s problems.
This is such a stupid response that it almost defies belief. Russia, like almost every country in the world (including Iran) relies on the international capital markets to finance it’s growth. The power of the West to modify Russia’s behavior lies in it’s willingness to impose capital sanctions, not in the fools errand of starting a new war in the Caucuses.Russian companies and individuals have billions stashed in Western banks and they need Wall Street and London financing desperately. Already Russian financiers are beginning to feel the pinch.
For many, that has been reflected in the Russian stock market. Once a hot investment, it has slumped nearly 25 percent in the last two months. Bankers have also pulled back on deals in the same period. Investment banking revenue from Russia was $148 million from mid-July to now. That is down from $260 million from mid-June to mid-July. And, halfway through this month, there have only been eight transactions raising debt for companies in Russia, compared with 37 in July, according to data compiled by Dealogic, a financial services research firm.
I am well aware that John McCain and his handlers think that all this saber rattling plays to his advantage. But once the Berlin Wall fell, Russia became as dependant on the capital markets as the U.S. The bully boys don’t want to think that their simplistic solution (send in the Marines to Georgia) is not the smart solution.
It is an approach that can modify behavior but how quickly? If they stay in place, they solidify their positions and people continue to die. That is a limited strategy, Jon, and in the past, it hasn’t stopped aggression. It does prove to be a good bartering chip as the combatants disengage.
We can’t bust their chops without pulling out seriously big firepower. We can isolate some access to the Gulf but that just makes it harder to police other avenues of approach and it risks the kind of confrontation we can’t back off from. It becomes a game of chicken.
I think you are right. Finance is the best knob to twist right now. On the other hand, I also think they’ve made their point and will pull out.
The inevitable is the neighboring states who have seen the humiliation and will slow their own western movement. We can live with that.
I’m not an isolationist but we really do have to fix problems here at home. Just be prepared for the genocides to follow.
It is an approach that can modify behavior but how quickly? If they stay in place, they solidify their positions and people continue to die. That is a limited strategy, Jon, and in the past, it hasn’t stopped aggression. It does prove to be a good bartering chip as the combatants disengage.
We can’t bust their chops without pulling out seriously big firepower. We can isolate some access to the Gulf but that just makes it harder to police other avenues of approach and it risks the kind of confrontation we can’t back off from. It becomes a game of chicken.
I think you are right. Finance is the best knob to twist right now. On the other hand, I also think they’ve made their point and will pull out.
The inevitable is the neighboring states who have seen the humiliation and will slow their own western movement. We can live with that.
I’m not an isolationist but we really do have to fix problems here at home. Just be prepared for the genocides to follow.
(takes bow)
I don’t actually get to post much, and I think others here deserve 95% of the credit for stymieing your daily assault on logic, but as grandma always says, “be polite when someone gives you an award.”
Jon, as to Georgia, it is nice to see you finally believe in “market forces” – but again notice it only happens when it comes to actually protecting our way of life from our evil lessers. Then here in this country you LOVE government intrusion. Let’s just call a spade and spade. You dislike the way this country is right now, you think the past 30 years have been horrible, so anything anti-American you support, and anything pro-government take over, you support that too. And those of us, who just want to PAUSE growth of government, are the bad guys.
Let’s just be glad the Iraq war is ending on a positive note. We both agree it would have been horrible if we left the place worse off than we found it. We have much to agree about in Iraq.
One more thing, since I have the conch, you dance too much.
Ex: In the very last post here, (about foreign workers) and the housing crisis you saw the market forces benefits, but when Pond trots out a tired protectionist union supported line about skilled foreign workers driving down the salaries of the good paying jobs… you bend. You don’t stand your ground, you don’t say, “Pond, it is better that the capable worker comes here than that the job goes somewhere else to find the worker.”
You like foreign students. You think they should stay here. Your job is to straighten up your side. When you have a good centrist position, stick with it. It makes you seem more reasonable.
p.s. You’re mad about the CO poll thing huh?
(takes bow)
I don’t actually get to post much, and I think others here deserve 95% of the credit for stymieing your daily assault on logic, but as grandma always says, “be polite when someone gives you an award.”
Jon, as to Georgia, it is nice to see you finally believe in “market forces” – but again notice it only happens when it comes to actually protecting our way of life from our evil lessers. Then here in this country you LOVE government intrusion. Let’s just call a spade and spade. You dislike the way this country is right now, you think the past 30 years have been horrible, so anything anti-American you support, and anything pro-government take over, you support that too. And those of us, who just want to PAUSE growth of government, are the bad guys.
Let’s just be glad the Iraq war is ending on a positive note. We both agree it would have been horrible if we left the place worse off than we found it. We have much to agree about in Iraq.
One more thing, since I have the conch, you dance too much.
Ex: In the very last post here, (about foreign workers) and the housing crisis you saw the market forces benefits, but when Pond trots out a tired protectionist union supported line about skilled foreign workers driving down the salaries of the good paying jobs… you bend. You don’t stand your ground, you don’t say, “Pond, it is better that the capable worker comes here than that the job goes somewhere else to find the worker.”
You like foreign students. You think they should stay here. Your job is to straighten up your side. When you have a good centrist position, stick with it. It makes you seem more reasonable.
p.s. You’re mad about the CO poll thing huh?
I have to wonder if right wing tactics might not include enlisting trolls to seek out blogs like this one and pepper the blogs with their war-mongering, true freedom-hating rants as a method of just wearing down progressive thought. I certainly haven’t seen any real solutions to our problems from some of the blood for oil types here.
I have to wonder if right wing tactics might not include enlisting trolls to seek out blogs like this one and pepper the blogs with their war-mongering, true freedom-hating rants as a method of just wearing down progressive thought. I certainly haven’t seen any real solutions to our problems from some of the blood for oil types here.
I enjoy reading the comments of people with opposing views. If people are really driven away from this site because of Morgan then they are weaklings. I think to ban/block a commenter because you don’t agree with their opinion is the real fascist impulse. Isn’t debating the issues what politics is all about? There are plenty of other sites for folks that want to be cheerleaders for the far Left. The comments of people like Hugo, len and others is what makes this site interesting. Morgan may be brash, but I think he adds insight to the discussions as well.
I enjoy reading the comments of people with opposing views. If people are really driven away from this site because of Morgan then they are weaklings. I think to ban/block a commenter because you don’t agree with their opinion is the real fascist impulse. Isn’t debating the issues what politics is all about? There are plenty of other sites for folks that want to be cheerleaders for the far Left. The comments of people like Hugo, len and others is what makes this site interesting. Morgan may be brash, but I think he adds insight to the discussions as well.
I agree with Steve. My wife has an uncanny knack of dealing with insane people & has inculcated in me the need to go beneath the surface; to see the inner being & connect with it. No matter how bizarre the behavior, there is that underlying humanity that matters…. Of course, in Morgan’s case, it doesn’t apply.
I agree with Steve. My wife has an uncanny knack of dealing with insane people & has inculcated in me the need to go beneath the surface; to see the inner being & connect with it. No matter how bizarre the behavior, there is that underlying humanity that matters…. Of course, in Morgan’s case, it doesn’t apply.
I’ve been put off by Morgan on several occasions, but I’ve also had a chance to consider characters like him. Whatever else he may be, I don’t think he’s a fascist.
A bully, perhaps, as are fascists in general. But there’s an element of unregulated libertarian abandon in the worldview he advocates. This seems like a far more chaotic force than anything a classic fascist would tolerate. It’s also far more self-serving than anything truly committed fascists would be conformable with.
I think the real archetype for fascism is Pinochet. Monstrous in many regards, he was still a remarkably – indeed, conspicuously – abstemious and frugal man, uninterested in leveraging his position for the sake of personal Imelda-style gain.
I say this after having read an interview with him, conducted by a reporter who had been granted a visit to Pinochet’s ‘summer retreat’. Expecting some fantastic sprawling villa, the reporter was astonished to find a rather humble building with a plain tin roof and very simple plumbing. Apparently, this is where Pinochet felt the most at ease. Bling wasn’t his thing.
In other words, there really is a ‘this is about something bigger than me’ idealism among true fascists that, I suspect, makes their worldview so compelling to the relatively small, but absolutely numerous, minority who actually drive the shifts towards fascism that periodically envelop some societies.
That’s an important fact to remember when their particular form of bullying aggression starts to menace otherwise peaceful people.
I’ve been put off by Morgan on several occasions, but I’ve also had a chance to consider characters like him. Whatever else he may be, I don’t think he’s a fascist.
A bully, perhaps, as are fascists in general. But there’s an element of unregulated libertarian abandon in the worldview he advocates. This seems like a far more chaotic force than anything a classic fascist would tolerate. It’s also far more self-serving than anything truly committed fascists would be conformable with.
I think the real archetype for fascism is Pinochet. Monstrous in many regards, he was still a remarkably – indeed, conspicuously – abstemious and frugal man, uninterested in leveraging his position for the sake of personal Imelda-style gain.
I say this after having read an interview with him, conducted by a reporter who had been granted a visit to Pinochet’s ‘summer retreat’. Expecting some fantastic sprawling villa, the reporter was astonished to find a rather humble building with a plain tin roof and very simple plumbing. Apparently, this is where Pinochet felt the most at ease. Bling wasn’t his thing.
In other words, there really is a ‘this is about something bigger than me’ idealism among true fascists that, I suspect, makes their worldview so compelling to the relatively small, but absolutely numerous, minority who actually drive the shifts towards fascism that periodically envelop some societies.
That’s an important fact to remember when their particular form of bullying aggression starts to menace otherwise peaceful people.
Yeah, that’s just what we need…murderers who are perfectly ordinary…
Yeah, that’s just what we need…murderers who are perfectly ordinary…
The blood of the infidels will flow red in the streets!
The blood of the infidels will flow red in the streets!
Well Rick, wasn’t that the comment made about Hitler, when one met him just how ordinary he really was? I’ve known two murderers. One was a freakzoid who beat two of my friends to death in college. Him I could see coming. One was a kid who would talk music at the apartment without a hint of anger. He picked up two kids hitchhiking and shot the guy, then raped his girlfriend and let her go.
It doesn’t pay to let one’s guard down.
That said, a Russian general is talking nuclear to Poland today if they put in a missile defense system.
Again, given a dynamic polytrope under stress, the tendancy of the edge cases to use extremes to reassert control is one of its most dangerous but highly predictable behaviors. The Tibetan monks chant for peace. Bands turn up the volume or play ballads until the crowd goes home.
It is a bad idea to beat the mean drum in the last set of a frenzied evening. Fights break out and if not on the dance floor, then in the parking lot.
Om shanti. Om shanti. Om shanti.
Well Rick, wasn’t that the comment made about Hitler, when one met him just how ordinary he really was? I’ve known two murderers. One was a freakzoid who beat two of my friends to death in college. Him I could see coming. One was a kid who would talk music at the apartment without a hint of anger. He picked up two kids hitchhiking and shot the guy, then raped his girlfriend and let her go.
It doesn’t pay to let one’s guard down.
That said, a Russian general is talking nuclear to Poland today if they put in a missile defense system.
Again, given a dynamic polytrope under stress, the tendancy of the edge cases to use extremes to reassert control is one of its most dangerous but highly predictable behaviors. The Tibetan monks chant for peace. Bands turn up the volume or play ballads until the crowd goes home.
It is a bad idea to beat the mean drum in the last set of a frenzied evening. Fights break out and if not on the dance floor, then in the parking lot.
Om shanti. Om shanti. Om shanti.
As I’ve said before, this blog is like a good dinner party. Hopefully there will be lots of different opinions, but that the discussion stays civil. That’s why Morgan is still at the table.
As I’ve said before, this blog is like a good dinner party. Hopefully there will be lots of different opinions, but that the discussion stays civil. That’s why Morgan is still at the table.
Jon,
You are quite right that it would be incredibly irrational and stupid for Russia to keep pushing NATO around. But economic interdependence has always been why war makes no sense. Ask Norman Angell. Russian pride may demand what the oligarchs’ wallets forbid.
Thanatos lives, as you have observed in earlier posts.
Jon,
You are quite right that it would be incredibly irrational and stupid for Russia to keep pushing NATO around. But economic interdependence has always been why war makes no sense. Ask Norman Angell. Russian pride may demand what the oligarchs’ wallets forbid.
Thanatos lives, as you have observed in earlier posts.
Yes Jon, but is the food any good?
Yes Jon, but is the food any good?
Pod,
It’s great. And so is the wine.
Pod,
It’s great. And so is the wine.
It isn’t Thanatos that Jon’s complaining about; it’s Epimetheus.
But anyway, Len Bullard, permit to say that you are a fascinating and welcome presence at our Host’s table.
I agree strongly with STS that’s it will be the cold and immediate prospect of market isolation that will bring the Bear-headed to a stark assay of the cost of “Russian pride”. (The non-diplomats among us might prefer “arrogance”, r even “brutality”.)
And I realize that you too are saying that, Professor, but — here’s where my doxameter (my opinion meter) really goes for a spin, because in my view Len’s right: You’ve got to bop the Bear somewhat forcefully upon her snout to make her pay attention. After all, she’s given to protracted hibernation.
All that stuff about young Britons and their boy’s magazines full of tales of military derring-do aside, and irrespective of American Chickenhawks in their ever broadening easy chairs, we’ve simply seen this before, a lot of it from the same tawdry cast of characters. Our apprentice diplomats and officers-in-training, from all the Western democracies and then some, came up learning how to handle this sort of situation. And I think that we here around the table know very well that it will be a multi-prong effort. That’s why I suggested to Ken that the U.S. still holds many options, many resources, and Russia comparatively few — and fewer by the day.
I’m s trongly inclined to tell a story about how I learned Sovietology over spaghetti one night, but I’ve had my time around Jon’s dinner table.
Bottoms Up!
It isn’t Thanatos that Jon’s complaining about; it’s Epimetheus.
But anyway, Len Bullard, permit to say that you are a fascinating and welcome presence at our Host’s table.
I agree strongly with STS that’s it will be the cold and immediate prospect of market isolation that will bring the Bear-headed to a stark assay of the cost of “Russian pride”. (The non-diplomats among us might prefer “arrogance”, r even “brutality”.)
And I realize that you too are saying that, Professor, but — here’s where my doxameter (my opinion meter) really goes for a spin, because in my view Len’s right: You’ve got to bop the Bear somewhat forcefully upon her snout to make her pay attention. After all, she’s given to protracted hibernation.
All that stuff about young Britons and their boy’s magazines full of tales of military derring-do aside, and irrespective of American Chickenhawks in their ever broadening easy chairs, we’ve simply seen this before, a lot of it from the same tawdry cast of characters. Our apprentice diplomats and officers-in-training, from all the Western democracies and then some, came up learning how to handle this sort of situation. And I think that we here around the table know very well that it will be a multi-prong effort. That’s why I suggested to Ken that the U.S. still holds many options, many resources, and Russia comparatively few — and fewer by the day.
I’m s trongly inclined to tell a story about how I learned Sovietology over spaghetti one night, but I’ve had my time around Jon’s dinner table.
Bottoms Up!
Hugo- Thank you for your props. I’m going to accept your invitation to dine in the real (not virtual world) and tell some tales. Perhaps a fewof us should figure where to meet for a real meal.
Here’s what I think is the deal as far as Russia goes. For the past 10 years, Russia has been called a “Second World Power” and this irritated the KGB grads, especially when they were making money hand over fist selling Oil, Gas and many other commodities to “The West”. They knew who’s bank balance was in better shape. Then we so overextend ourselves in Iraq that we can’t even get 10,000 more soldiers to Afghanistan for the summer fighting season.
So Putin decides to play to the same Russian Nationalism that has worked for centuries in their politics. BFD. He knows that the US made a financial/strategic blunder of starting a war in Iraq, for completely made up reasons. It has increased Putin’s Balance sheet by $ Trillions because his state oil and gas reserves are now twice as valuable as they were 12 months ago.
So he decides to test us. But there is no win in taking the bait militarily. First off, out military is overextended. Second, power will quickly flow away from Putin and towards Medvedev, if all the oligarchs get the dollar deposits frozen and all the Russian investment funds can’t get Western Capital. Putin is fucked.
Thats why we have to see if we can get a real dialogue with the man who comes from business, Medvedev–the guy that capital has their hopes on.
And STS-It may be that the financial stakes are so much higher now than when Norman Angell wrote his tract, just before the beginning of modern warfare as a business in 1916. If the global trading system seizes up , for all the reasons Paul Krugman pointed out this morning, most of the capital will be in Western Banks. I don’t think money power can afford to let differences over South Ossetia stop the global gravy train. Watch, Putin may come out on the wrong end of this. But then again plays to “fear of the other” have always worked well in out country as well as Russia.
Hugo- Thank you for your props. I’m going to accept your invitation to dine in the real (not virtual world) and tell some tales. Perhaps a fewof us should figure where to meet for a real meal.
Here’s what I think is the deal as far as Russia goes. For the past 10 years, Russia has been called a “Second World Power” and this irritated the KGB grads, especially when they were making money hand over fist selling Oil, Gas and many other commodities to “The West”. They knew who’s bank balance was in better shape. Then we so overextend ourselves in Iraq that we can’t even get 10,000 more soldiers to Afghanistan for the summer fighting season.
So Putin decides to play to the same Russian Nationalism that has worked for centuries in their politics. BFD. He knows that the US made a financial/strategic blunder of starting a war in Iraq, for completely made up reasons. It has increased Putin’s Balance sheet by $ Trillions because his state oil and gas reserves are now twice as valuable as they were 12 months ago.
So he decides to test us. But there is no win in taking the bait militarily. First off, out military is overextended. Second, power will quickly flow away from Putin and towards Medvedev, if all the oligarchs get the dollar deposits frozen and all the Russian investment funds can’t get Western Capital. Putin is fucked.
Thats why we have to see if we can get a real dialogue with the man who comes from business, Medvedev–the guy that capital has their hopes on.
And STS-It may be that the financial stakes are so much higher now than when Norman Angell wrote his tract, just before the beginning of modern warfare as a business in 1916. If the global trading system seizes up , for all the reasons Paul Krugman pointed out this morning, most of the capital will be in Western Banks. I don’t think money power can afford to let differences over South Ossetia stop the global gravy train. Watch, Putin may come out on the wrong end of this. But then again plays to “fear of the other” have always worked well in out country as well as Russia.
Wheras I come from the position, on those matters (of which I think very little), that Iraq more than had it coming, and that our military is not overextended. The USN is tanned, rested and ready, and we’re holding various Special Services in reserve; moreover, the Air Force, if it will finally do genuine inter-service cooperation, could actually carry the day. The Bear is hemmed-in (figuratively) and is about to be caged, but I agree that long-term the slow bleed of capitalism will debilitate them again, unto the point at which they recognize that damn near all their weapons systems are a generation or two behind, and they haven’t the capital to do a damn thing about it. It is they, not we, who are forcing a kind of “stutter” of history.
They’re Bloc-heads [sic], plain and simple, and they’ll never learn the right fork.
Wheras I come from the position, on those matters (of which I think very little), that Iraq more than had it coming, and that our military is not overextended. The USN is tanned, rested and ready, and we’re holding various Special Services in reserve; moreover, the Air Force, if it will finally do genuine inter-service cooperation, could actually carry the day. The Bear is hemmed-in (figuratively) and is about to be caged, but I agree that long-term the slow bleed of capitalism will debilitate them again, unto the point at which they recognize that damn near all their weapons systems are a generation or two behind, and they haven’t the capital to do a damn thing about it. It is they, not we, who are forcing a kind of “stutter” of history.
They’re Bloc-heads [sic], plain and simple, and they’ll never learn the right fork.
Jon, so nice to see you clearly lay out real thoughts. Hugo then perfectly responds. He makes real points. To really take up, for once, a serious DEBATE, you need to:
1. Claim Soviet military isn’t a joke. You need to suggest they can spend the money to modernize and arm up.
and
2. Claim US military and financial power is to “tapped” to be able to shut Putin up as he is now. Meaning, you need to insist that we can’t arm the shit out of Georgia and Ukraine and bleed the bear like we did in Afghanistan.
If you can’t make both those points, why have your opinion? Putin will come out on the wrong side of this – but because WE are the judge. WE are the parent.
Couple of points of my own:
It isn’t “western” banks, they are OUR banks.
You recently thought Europe’s economy was doing fine, and suddenly they are the ones really suffering our damn dollar exploits.
Now you think, Russia and China own the US – they don’t. We’re big and getting bigger. We just simply have better economic systems than they do. We CAN’T lose as long as we are a market based economy… the only danger is rot being driven from the inside by dirty angry old hippies.
We need to put whats left of Georgia and Ukraine in NATO. We need to deploy in Czech and Poland ASAP.
Jon, so nice to see you clearly lay out real thoughts. Hugo then perfectly responds. He makes real points. To really take up, for once, a serious DEBATE, you need to:
1. Claim Soviet military isn’t a joke. You need to suggest they can spend the money to modernize and arm up.
and
2. Claim US military and financial power is to “tapped” to be able to shut Putin up as he is now. Meaning, you need to insist that we can’t arm the shit out of Georgia and Ukraine and bleed the bear like we did in Afghanistan.
If you can’t make both those points, why have your opinion? Putin will come out on the wrong side of this – but because WE are the judge. WE are the parent.
Couple of points of my own:
It isn’t “western” banks, they are OUR banks.
You recently thought Europe’s economy was doing fine, and suddenly they are the ones really suffering our damn dollar exploits.
Now you think, Russia and China own the US – they don’t. We’re big and getting bigger. We just simply have better economic systems than they do. We CAN’T lose as long as we are a market based economy… the only danger is rot being driven from the inside by dirty angry old hippies.
We need to put whats left of Georgia and Ukraine in NATO. We need to deploy in Czech and Poland ASAP.
FWIW, I don’t see capital as being any kind of moderating or limiting factor in Russian behavior, any more than it is for the US or China. The notion that capital markets can somehow liberalize countries that have no intention of liberalizing has already been refuted most loudly by the oh-so-fabulous Chinese. Markets can liberalize economies, but that’s never had any real impact on political systems. Just ask the Chileans, who got to enjoy the most “economic freedom” of any economy in the Americas, whilst their neighbors were being pulled out of bed at 3 AM and taken to torture centers for not being sufficiently sycophantic of Generalissimo Pinochet. But I digress….
All the hot air being expended over Russia’s intentions by the righties misses so much reality I’m amazed anyone takes them (the wingnuts who want to go to war over a country controlled by a ridiculous thug of a pseudo-democratic moron…sound familiar?) seriously.
How is Georgia a compelling strategic national interest for any member of the EU or the US? It isn’t. There is a pipeline, which I’ve noticed the Russkies haven’t touched. Wonder why….
As for Russian interest, their proclivity for being surrounded by weak (nearly failed) states is understandable in a way. They’re a largely landlocked empire aged about 300 years in real terms. That’s quite a long legacy of being paranoid about one’s neighbors, especially when those neighbors do totally stupid things like kick a hornets nest to make cheap points with the nationalist clique at home. Yet it’s pretty clear this time, that ol’ Saak got the impression the US would back him up in a confrontation with Teh Bear. I can’t imagine who might have enabled that impression…
Brilliant!
When all the hyperventilating stops, calmer heads will realize a few things: 1) Russia’s sole source of wealth is oil and minerals, the production of which has already peaked and thus far is declining at a rate of 5% – 8% (oil specifically); 2) they don’t have any manufacturing to speak of; 3) since oil is basically the only thing propping up their newfound prosperity, this too will pass and they’ll go back to being a very big, pissed off (as in poverty sucks for most people), unstable monster with delusions of grandeur a lot sooner than the frothers on the right could ever possibly realize.
Short version: they’re going to look a lot less threatening within 10 years and they’ll be another huge banana republic, just like us. A paper tiger, with a dilapidated military––not that ours is dilapidated, mind you, as we’re crushing our own society to have the baddest military in the world!
Russia wants to reassert its Imperial claim to its sphere of influence. It’s precisely the same thing the US has always done (cough, Monroe Doctrine, cough) in the Americas and anywhere else we want, for whatever reasons we choose this week. That doesn’t make it right, of course, not by a long shot.
Not all of what they want is necessarily wrong. Just as what the US wants isn’t necessarily wrong. It just turns out that in both cases, being wrong much of the time goes with the territory, it seems.
Smart people (in guhmint) might want to start considering what it is that really matters (to our societies, as opposed to our corporations) and start dealing with that. Russia needn’t feel threatened by the West. We needn’t feel threatened by everyone that isn’t US. Indeed, we don’t really need to wage a bunch of wars over oil either, but that’s where we’re headed, isn’t it?
The real question in all this is this: are Teh Peeples ready to start making such demands? I have my doubts.
FWIW, I don’t see capital as being any kind of moderating or limiting factor in Russian behavior, any more than it is for the US or China. The notion that capital markets can somehow liberalize countries that have no intention of liberalizing has already been refuted most loudly by the oh-so-fabulous Chinese. Markets can liberalize economies, but that’s never had any real impact on political systems. Just ask the Chileans, who got to enjoy the most “economic freedom” of any economy in the Americas, whilst their neighbors were being pulled out of bed at 3 AM and taken to torture centers for not being sufficiently sycophantic of Generalissimo Pinochet. But I digress….
All the hot air being expended over Russia’s intentions by the righties misses so much reality I’m amazed anyone takes them (the wingnuts who want to go to war over a country controlled by a ridiculous thug of a pseudo-democratic moron…sound familiar?) seriously.
How is Georgia a compelling strategic national interest for any member of the EU or the US? It isn’t. There is a pipeline, which I’ve noticed the Russkies haven’t touched. Wonder why….
As for Russian interest, their proclivity for being surrounded by weak (nearly failed) states is understandable in a way. They’re a largely landlocked empire aged about 300 years in real terms. That’s quite a long legacy of being paranoid about one’s neighbors, especially when those neighbors do totally stupid things like kick a hornets nest to make cheap points with the nationalist clique at home. Yet it’s pretty clear this time, that ol’ Saak got the impression the US would back him up in a confrontation with Teh Bear. I can’t imagine who might have enabled that impression…
Brilliant!
When all the hyperventilating stops, calmer heads will realize a few things: 1) Russia’s sole source of wealth is oil and minerals, the production of which has already peaked and thus far is declining at a rate of 5% – 8% (oil specifically); 2) they don’t have any manufacturing to speak of; 3) since oil is basically the only thing propping up their newfound prosperity, this too will pass and they’ll go back to being a very big, pissed off (as in poverty sucks for most people), unstable monster with delusions of grandeur a lot sooner than the frothers on the right could ever possibly realize.
Short version: they’re going to look a lot less threatening within 10 years and they’ll be another huge banana republic, just like us. A paper tiger, with a dilapidated military––not that ours is dilapidated, mind you, as we’re crushing our own society to have the baddest military in the world!
Russia wants to reassert its Imperial claim to its sphere of influence. It’s precisely the same thing the US has always done (cough, Monroe Doctrine, cough) in the Americas and anywhere else we want, for whatever reasons we choose this week. That doesn’t make it right, of course, not by a long shot.
Not all of what they want is necessarily wrong. Just as what the US wants isn’t necessarily wrong. It just turns out that in both cases, being wrong much of the time goes with the territory, it seems.
Smart people (in guhmint) might want to start considering what it is that really matters (to our societies, as opposed to our corporations) and start dealing with that. Russia needn’t feel threatened by the West. We needn’t feel threatened by everyone that isn’t US. Indeed, we don’t really need to wage a bunch of wars over oil either, but that’s where we’re headed, isn’t it?
The real question in all this is this: are Teh Peeples ready to start making such demands? I have my doubts.
Honestly, would the U.S. care if it weren’t for the crimping of the oil supply that runs through the region? It’s unfortunate that the military is the hammer and every problem is a nail, but the hammer is getting worn out. We’ll try everything short of a military solution, because we really are stretched that thin and the budget deficit is the sword of Damocles hanging over our heads.
Honestly, would the U.S. care if it weren’t for the crimping of the oil supply that runs through the region? It’s unfortunate that the military is the hammer and every problem is a nail, but the hammer is getting worn out. We’ll try everything short of a military solution, because we really are stretched that thin and the budget deficit is the sword of Damocles hanging over our heads.
Morgan, it’s time to change the drugs.
Enron…old hippies? Mortgage crisis…old hippies? The economic woes of this country are not to be laid at the doorstep of old hippies. It’s the greedy conservatives that have driven us to the brink of bankruptcy.
Morgan, clearly you are living in some sort of bubble. You are totally insulated from the reality that many people in the US are living, and when you do pop up out of your prairie dog hole, what you see is from a very low perspective. You’re not seeing the difficulties that many are living, or if you are seeing some of the picture, you’ve managed to say that those who have been caught short are “the other”…beneath you and deserving of a cruel fate. And that is precisely what I’ve come to detest about too many libertarians…a mean spirited ability to make those less fortunate be lesser beings. You and your fellows have a way of dehumanizing those struggling to get by. It’s kind of disgusting, and your rants here have helped harden me against your political philosophy. So maybe you’re doing more harm than good for your cause here… You’ve certainly lost me with your callous arguments and clearly heartless rants.
Morgan, it’s time to change the drugs.
Enron…old hippies? Mortgage crisis…old hippies? The economic woes of this country are not to be laid at the doorstep of old hippies. It’s the greedy conservatives that have driven us to the brink of bankruptcy.
Morgan, clearly you are living in some sort of bubble. You are totally insulated from the reality that many people in the US are living, and when you do pop up out of your prairie dog hole, what you see is from a very low perspective. You’re not seeing the difficulties that many are living, or if you are seeing some of the picture, you’ve managed to say that those who have been caught short are “the other”…beneath you and deserving of a cruel fate. And that is precisely what I’ve come to detest about too many libertarians…a mean spirited ability to make those less fortunate be lesser beings. You and your fellows have a way of dehumanizing those struggling to get by. It’s kind of disgusting, and your rants here have helped harden me against your political philosophy. So maybe you’re doing more harm than good for your cause here… You’ve certainly lost me with your callous arguments and clearly heartless rants.
To Morgan Warstler (August 15, 2008 at 7:22 pm):
Russian nvasion of Georgia (wouldn’t be better to call it Grusia, as Czech etc. do, so that poor-old Atlanta, GA and real Georgia are not dragged into this?) and “protection” or protection of their ethnic brethens in Abchasia and Southern Osetia naturally offer to many several historical analogies, the most frequently-mentioned one (here too) being of Hitler’s Third Reich’s incremental step toward its total subordination of Europe also via protecting ethnic Germans in Sudeten part of Czechoslovakia. I have to more or less agree with such analogy, fully aware of the fact that analogies are very seldom perfect. Czechs were not always, certainly by contemporary (and idealistic) standards fair to Germans who – after all – had, fo 600 years disprioportional share of progress and development which have been achived in Bohemia, along with other German-speaking groups like Austriand and Jews. Pre-WWII Cechoslovak army, police (even ranks of professors at universities) were prety much void of fellow German citizens (and in Slovakia only few dozens of Slovak were police officers). Not suprisingly, like traditionally harsh post-WWI reparations on Germany, these asymetrical treatment of Germans and Slovaks in otherwise democratic outpost in Central and eastern Europe that pre-war Czechoslovakia represented (being a destination for democratic and Jewish refugees from the Reich), was not forgoten by Sudeten Germans nor Slovak – patriots? nationalists? – who clamored for joining the Reich and gettin g their “independent” Slovak state respectively. The problem is, of course, as we all know, that no one is perfect nor is one’s historical record. Which is again opportunity for demagogues, populists and stuff to confuse masses with and play on their emotions. But, all things being equal I woudl, here, in Russia-Gruzia (Georgia)now military and loss of lives conflict, like Cicero with Plato, I would rather “err with Plato than be right with his oponents”. That’s for sure.
2) Reading your last line about “deployinng in the Czech and Poland ASAP” my REQUEST to you and everyone here and wverywhere would not political etc. but LINGUISTIC: For 16 years now, after Slovakia’s last attempt to separate and be independent suceeded in VELVET divorce and Czech Republic was, by default forced on Czechs, Czech language Institute of Academy of Sciences, Ministry of Foreign Affairs etc, were unable to grasp English-speaking world (i.e. much of the worls as English became lingua franca of the Earthm, no ofense to French or Mandarine Chinese etc. intended). While Czech people adopted and FORCED on officialdom, including the said Czech Language Institute abreviated, i.e therefore acceptable, convenient, therefore widely-used version of the official name of the country: “CESKO” vs. CESKA REPUBLIKA, any English version of the abreviation has been so-far resisted by the oficialdom.
CESKO was first adopted by Czech public, then by some and over time by all media. Fact accompli, although some politicians still – from time to time – beat this death horse trying to squeeze a bit of populist, “patriotic” points by claiming that they have problem or will “never let it out of their mouth”, i,e. CESKO and use CESKA REPUBLIKA instead.
In analogy to Poland, Ireland, Holland (Netherlands), etc. CZECHLANDS has been the English-language abreviated alternative myself and others in exile (including the venerable exile intelligensia organisation, the SVU “Society for Arts and Sciences”, where Dr. Miloslav Rechcigl, their worldwide president has been reasoning for and supporting acceptance and usage of much needed, one-word English name for the Czech Republic.
Your case is just a smal example of inherent problem and – not only I – believe that Czech authorities (Academy of Sciences, Ministry of Foreign affairs etc.) need to be brought to senses by the rest of the world: Hey we, the media, everyone who speaks or need to use English would REALLY appreciate if you will give us sense-making, easy to use, one-word abbreviation to the Czech Republic.
Historicaly and in the case of Ceska republika versus Cesko, where “the people”, the street and the media decided and opeted for the short version, Czech Language Institute finally (after several years of disapproving “Cesko”) gave in.
The same options: either by telling czech authorities in straightforward and repeated manner: Hey: Czechlands noth ALWAYS “the czech Republic” or you will have to accept that anyways as we are gonna use it widely and consistently.
If you ask why “CzechlandS” as compared to “Czechland”: In Czech (alanguage) the historical name for centuries was “Kands of Czech Crown”, lands refering to: Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia.
So, like in NeatherlandS, in makes sense (and it should be easier to swalow for the Czech officialdom) CzechlandS.
“Deployed in Czech” or “Made in Czech” (a designation of country of origin) doesnt (rightly) sit well with Czechs, including Czech officialdom, some of them mentioned. But it is – yet again – left to the push from outside to bring said officialdom there to senses to give up on silly, impractical, insensitive-to-the-world insistence to be forced to used “the czech Republic”.
And, their suggested and officially declared short version in English: “Czechia” clearly, after being on the books or http://www.mzv.cz website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, didn’t catch on.
So, by joining in so early in pushing for CZECHLANDS, you and everyone else can become, yet again, part of history, claimg, like vaclav Havel (and others) concerning the claim for first use of Velvet Revolution, that yes, they were the pioneers of usage of Czechland.
Thank you.
To Morgan Warstler (August 15, 2008 at 7:22 pm):
Russian nvasion of Georgia (wouldn’t be better to call it Grusia, as Czech etc. do, so that poor-old Atlanta, GA and real Georgia are not dragged into this?) and “protection” or protection of their ethnic brethens in Abchasia and Southern Osetia naturally offer to many several historical analogies, the most frequently-mentioned one (here too) being of Hitler’s Third Reich’s incremental step toward its total subordination of Europe also via protecting ethnic Germans in Sudeten part of Czechoslovakia. I have to more or less agree with such analogy, fully aware of the fact that analogies are very seldom perfect. Czechs were not always, certainly by contemporary (and idealistic) standards fair to Germans who – after all – had, fo 600 years disprioportional share of progress and development which have been achived in Bohemia, along with other German-speaking groups like Austriand and Jews. Pre-WWII Cechoslovak army, police (even ranks of professors at universities) were prety much void of fellow German citizens (and in Slovakia only few dozens of Slovak were police officers). Not suprisingly, like traditionally harsh post-WWI reparations on Germany, these asymetrical treatment of Germans and Slovaks in otherwise democratic outpost in Central and eastern Europe that pre-war Czechoslovakia represented (being a destination for democratic and Jewish refugees from the Reich), was not forgoten by Sudeten Germans nor Slovak – patriots? nationalists? – who clamored for joining the Reich and gettin g their “independent” Slovak state respectively. The problem is, of course, as we all know, that no one is perfect nor is one’s historical record. Which is again opportunity for demagogues, populists and stuff to confuse masses with and play on their emotions. But, all things being equal I woudl, here, in Russia-Gruzia (Georgia)now military and loss of lives conflict, like Cicero with Plato, I would rather “err with Plato than be right with his oponents”. That’s for sure.
2) Reading your last line about “deployinng in the Czech and Poland ASAP” my REQUEST to you and everyone here and wverywhere would not political etc. but LINGUISTIC: For 16 years now, after Slovakia’s last attempt to separate and be independent suceeded in VELVET divorce and Czech Republic was, by default forced on Czechs, Czech language Institute of Academy of Sciences, Ministry of Foreign Affairs etc, were unable to grasp English-speaking world (i.e. much of the worls as English became lingua franca of the Earthm, no ofense to French or Mandarine Chinese etc. intended). While Czech people adopted and FORCED on officialdom, including the said Czech Language Institute abreviated, i.e therefore acceptable, convenient, therefore widely-used version of the official name of the country: “CESKO” vs. CESKA REPUBLIKA, any English version of the abreviation has been so-far resisted by the oficialdom.
CESKO was first adopted by Czech public, then by some and over time by all media. Fact accompli, although some politicians still – from time to time – beat this death horse trying to squeeze a bit of populist, “patriotic” points by claiming that they have problem or will “never let it out of their mouth”, i,e. CESKO and use CESKA REPUBLIKA instead.
In analogy to Poland, Ireland, Holland (Netherlands), etc. CZECHLANDS has been the English-language abreviated alternative myself and others in exile (including the venerable exile intelligensia organisation, the SVU “Society for Arts and Sciences”, where Dr. Miloslav Rechcigl, their worldwide president has been reasoning for and supporting acceptance and usage of much needed, one-word English name for the Czech Republic.
Your case is just a smal example of inherent problem and – not only I – believe that Czech authorities (Academy of Sciences, Ministry of Foreign affairs etc.) need to be brought to senses by the rest of the world: Hey we, the media, everyone who speaks or need to use English would REALLY appreciate if you will give us sense-making, easy to use, one-word abbreviation to the Czech Republic.
Historicaly and in the case of Ceska republika versus Cesko, where “the people”, the street and the media decided and opeted for the short version, Czech Language Institute finally (after several years of disapproving “Cesko”) gave in.
The same options: either by telling czech authorities in straightforward and repeated manner: Hey: Czechlands noth ALWAYS “the czech Republic” or you will have to accept that anyways as we are gonna use it widely and consistently.
If you ask why “CzechlandS” as compared to “Czechland”: In Czech (alanguage) the historical name for centuries was “Kands of Czech Crown”, lands refering to: Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia.
So, like in NeatherlandS, in makes sense (and it should be easier to swalow for the Czech officialdom) CzechlandS.
“Deployed in Czech” or “Made in Czech” (a designation of country of origin) doesnt (rightly) sit well with Czechs, including Czech officialdom, some of them mentioned. But it is – yet again – left to the push from outside to bring said officialdom there to senses to give up on silly, impractical, insensitive-to-the-world insistence to be forced to used “the czech Republic”.
And, their suggested and officially declared short version in English: “Czechia” clearly, after being on the books or http://www.mzv.cz website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, didn’t catch on.
So, by joining in so early in pushing for CZECHLANDS, you and everyone else can become, yet again, part of history, claimg, like vaclav Havel (and others) concerning the claim for first use of Velvet Revolution, that yes, they were the pioneers of usage of Czechland.
Thank you.
Len Bullard said: That said, a Russian general is talking nuclear to Poland today if they put in a missile defense system.
Len Can you say Cuban Missile Crisis…JFK was quite willing to risk a nuclear war with Russia when Castro allowed Russia to build missile silos on Cuban soil which were intended to house nuclear missiles ninety miles off the Florida coast…
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander and wether you like it or not the Russians are right on this issue and have every right to defend themselves just as the good ole US of A did in the nineteen sixties…
Len Bullard said: That said, a Russian general is talking nuclear to Poland today if they put in a missile defense system.
Len Can you say Cuban Missile Crisis…JFK was quite willing to risk a nuclear war with Russia when Castro allowed Russia to build missile silos on Cuban soil which were intended to house nuclear missiles ninety miles off the Florida coast…
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander and wether you like it or not the Russians are right on this issue and have every right to defend themselves just as the good ole US of A did in the nineteen sixties…
I’m not an adept Dinner Party conversationalist, but I like to read and I like to listen… even to the Morgan Warstlers of of the Interweb.
The comments section of Jon’s posts remind me more and more of the newsgroup talk.origins where intelligent, civil people duke it out over issues like the validity of the latest acheopteryx fossil find.
Talk.origins does have a dark side where Creationists and Evolutionists hurl bloviations at each other and Mr. Warstler reminds me of an acquaintance of mine who logs on to bait the Creationists. It isn’t enough to correct their errors in logic, he has to make them look foolish by prodding them into making angry responses to inflammatory remarks. Mr. Warstler is in no way unique and, despite being opposite most of his opinions, I am entertained rather than irritated.
As for the Big Scary Bear, the Guardian’s Charles Grant seems to agree that Russia is not as dangerous as hysteria would have us believe: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/15/russia.economics?gusrc=rss&feed=commentisfree
I’m not an adept Dinner Party conversationalist, but I like to read and I like to listen… even to the Morgan Warstlers of of the Interweb.
The comments section of Jon’s posts remind me more and more of the newsgroup talk.origins where intelligent, civil people duke it out over issues like the validity of the latest acheopteryx fossil find.
Talk.origins does have a dark side where Creationists and Evolutionists hurl bloviations at each other and Mr. Warstler reminds me of an acquaintance of mine who logs on to bait the Creationists. It isn’t enough to correct their errors in logic, he has to make them look foolish by prodding them into making angry responses to inflammatory remarks. Mr. Warstler is in no way unique and, despite being opposite most of his opinions, I am entertained rather than irritated.
As for the Big Scary Bear, the Guardian’s Charles Grant seems to agree that Russia is not as dangerous as hysteria would have us believe: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/15/russia.economics?gusrc=rss&feed=commentisfree
Bit of a fork, but did many of you catch the Pat Oliphant cartoon of a few days ago? Not sure if this URL is time limited, so you may have to go to the archives until you find it.
http://www.uclick.com/client/nyt/po/
If you can’t find it, the punch line is “Don’t you have a brutal, stupid war of your own to go to?”
Bit of a fork, but did many of you catch the Pat Oliphant cartoon of a few days ago? Not sure if this URL is time limited, so you may have to go to the archives until you find it.
http://www.uclick.com/client/nyt/po/
If you can’t find it, the punch line is “Don’t you have a brutal, stupid war of your own to go to?”
“I think to ban/block a commenter because you don’t agree with their opinion is the real fascist impulse.”
Nonsense. A blog belongs to its owner. Posters are the *guests* of the owner, not the partners. Is Fox News compelled to allow dissenters to state their opinions on the air? If they did, I think Bill O’Reilly’s head would explode. (Being empty, it wouldn’t make much of a mess.)
I believe that guests are under an obligation to conduct themselves to a standard of manners set by their host, or to forego visiting. That’s how I think of it when people visit my home, and that’s how I think of it when I visit other people’s homes.
The word “fascism” continues to be bandied about with no connection to its actual meaning.
“I think to ban/block a commenter because you don’t agree with their opinion is the real fascist impulse.”
Nonsense. A blog belongs to its owner. Posters are the *guests* of the owner, not the partners. Is Fox News compelled to allow dissenters to state their opinions on the air? If they did, I think Bill O’Reilly’s head would explode. (Being empty, it wouldn’t make much of a mess.)
I believe that guests are under an obligation to conduct themselves to a standard of manners set by their host, or to forego visiting. That’s how I think of it when people visit my home, and that’s how I think of it when I visit other people’s homes.
The word “fascism” continues to be bandied about with no connection to its actual meaning.
The new Economist cover is the classic Soviet style poster with Putin on it.
It is not satire, it is valid recognition.
Georgia is the biggest intelligence failure since 911.
This administration reacted flailing for words, now redacted bluster.
Cheney and Bush appear to have been totally blind sided.
NATO had it’s legs cut from under it.
That is a serious blow to the USA.
The Russians deployed medium range missiles to the battlefield.
They looked at the US precision bombing and could not counter it in kind
or assure absolute air defense, so they adopted tactical nuclear weapons into their doctrine.
This invasion was planned, with a training exercise including tactical nukes prior to the
invasion. Put a smart bomb through our TOC, we nuke your airbase/carrier.
Russia is in the black (and has a vast new gas field/pipeline in the works), we are in the red financially (bankrupt nation).
The Fed/Banking/finance/elite position voiced by remarks above represents the mind set well but not the reality.
That entity is not America the nation.
It only takes a single nuclear weapon to pop that bubble of power and control.
Undermining the nation to prosper and extend elite power may come to that.
The Russians just checked the Neocon elite pipeline and is playing in earnest the Neocon’s energy control game, not just for national recognition and respect, to win.
This administration’s focus on moving the nation into fascism at home right down to covert mutilations and violations of citizens inside the USA using “Ritual Abuse Trauma” at great expense and manpower, just met the flaw of misusing intelligence resources.
Those intelligence resources and focus on torture at home would have been better spent and focused toward our external adversaries.
The new Economist cover is the classic Soviet style poster with Putin on it.
It is not satire, it is valid recognition.
Georgia is the biggest intelligence failure since 911.
This administration reacted flailing for words, now redacted bluster.
Cheney and Bush appear to have been totally blind sided.
NATO had it’s legs cut from under it.
That is a serious blow to the USA.
The Russians deployed medium range missiles to the battlefield.
They looked at the US precision bombing and could not counter it in kind
or assure absolute air defense, so they adopted tactical nuclear weapons into their doctrine.
This invasion was planned, with a training exercise including tactical nukes prior to the
invasion. Put a smart bomb through our TOC, we nuke your airbase/carrier.
Russia is in the black (and has a vast new gas field/pipeline in the works), we are in the red financially (bankrupt nation).
The Fed/Banking/finance/elite position voiced by remarks above represents the mind set well but not the reality.
That entity is not America the nation.
It only takes a single nuclear weapon to pop that bubble of power and control.
Undermining the nation to prosper and extend elite power may come to that.
The Russians just checked the Neocon elite pipeline and is playing in earnest the Neocon’s energy control game, not just for national recognition and respect, to win.
This administration’s focus on moving the nation into fascism at home right down to covert mutilations and violations of citizens inside the USA using “Ritual Abuse Trauma” at great expense and manpower, just met the flaw of misusing intelligence resources.
Those intelligence resources and focus on torture at home would have been better spent and focused toward our external adversaries.
Robert,
Am I supposed to say, “Czechia” if so I will need some time to adopt.
Rick,
Dirty old hippies have caused most of the problems this country faces. And I promise you I am not saying this out of a desire to see the poor be eaten. It is PRECISELY because I am 100% sure that improvements in technology are the only way to raise the standard of living for those who have the least, that I sooooo despise the dirty hippies.
Only the market drives forward towards a day when a premier education is as close to free as Napster has made music.
Only the market drives towards a day when cancer and heart disease is cured.
Only the market drives down gas consumption and finds alt.energy solutions.
Those with the good intentions (and some with not so good intentions) pave the way to hell. And dirty hippies is their name. It isn’t enough for them to cry out later, “how was I to know!” We know for sure that “only the market” really solves because only the market REALLY INVENTS – the the only solution to what ails us is invention. You cannot re-distribute wealth and turn it into MORE invention. You cannot tax profits of invention, and turn it into more invention, the government can not, does not invent – it only inhibits invention, interferes with true market paths, and market paths always invent.
There is no car engine that runs of water, bought up and vaulted away by GM. There is no university experiment, that a bio-tech company wouldn’t have done better & faster with GREED as their motive. There is nothing that the market doesn’t bring us, and if you are not thankful for her her gifts, and in awe of her magic, then you are a dirty hippie and you are part of the problem.
What we do not know is the future joys of invention, that we could have NOW if it were not for dirty hippies who have been slowing down invention the world over. We “could” have had alt.energy 20 years ago without government in the way. Right now, AIDS research is set back because the profit motive for developing the drugs was impinged by the Clinton administration. Yes, the future is unknowable, but what we do know is this: 1) only invention solves. 2) hippies interfere with invention.
—-
That said, we have a government, it is an unfortunate fact, but it is a fact. It consumes about as much via taxes and regulation as is possible right now. There isn’t much more left for it to consume. And more than anything, it PROVIDES too much (via deficits). The basic fact is that the market is now forcing the government to cease deficit spending, and even with new tax revenues, that means cut in services.
I say this because, we are going to need EVEN MORE invention if we are going to deal with all these old worthless hippies that are about to retire. We need to invent some decent uses for old worthless hippies. We need to invent some cheaper ways stack old worthless hippies in old hippie communities that consume less resources as they dodder off into their sunset. And since only the market can invent some way to stack old worthless hippies, I IMPLORE YOU, please get out of the market’s way and let the magic happen.
Robert,
Am I supposed to say, “Czechia” if so I will need some time to adopt.
Rick,
Dirty old hippies have caused most of the problems this country faces. And I promise you I am not saying this out of a desire to see the poor be eaten. It is PRECISELY because I am 100% sure that improvements in technology are the only way to raise the standard of living for those who have the least, that I sooooo despise the dirty hippies.
Only the market drives forward towards a day when a premier education is as close to free as Napster has made music.
Only the market drives towards a day when cancer and heart disease is cured.
Only the market drives down gas consumption and finds alt.energy solutions.
Those with the good intentions (and some with not so good intentions) pave the way to hell. And dirty hippies is their name. It isn’t enough for them to cry out later, “how was I to know!” We know for sure that “only the market” really solves because only the market REALLY INVENTS – the the only solution to what ails us is invention. You cannot re-distribute wealth and turn it into MORE invention. You cannot tax profits of invention, and turn it into more invention, the government can not, does not invent – it only inhibits invention, interferes with true market paths, and market paths always invent.
There is no car engine that runs of water, bought up and vaulted away by GM. There is no university experiment, that a bio-tech company wouldn’t have done better & faster with GREED as their motive. There is nothing that the market doesn’t bring us, and if you are not thankful for her her gifts, and in awe of her magic, then you are a dirty hippie and you are part of the problem.
What we do not know is the future joys of invention, that we could have NOW if it were not for dirty hippies who have been slowing down invention the world over. We “could” have had alt.energy 20 years ago without government in the way. Right now, AIDS research is set back because the profit motive for developing the drugs was impinged by the Clinton administration. Yes, the future is unknowable, but what we do know is this: 1) only invention solves. 2) hippies interfere with invention.
—-
That said, we have a government, it is an unfortunate fact, but it is a fact. It consumes about as much via taxes and regulation as is possible right now. There isn’t much more left for it to consume. And more than anything, it PROVIDES too much (via deficits). The basic fact is that the market is now forcing the government to cease deficit spending, and even with new tax revenues, that means cut in services.
I say this because, we are going to need EVEN MORE invention if we are going to deal with all these old worthless hippies that are about to retire. We need to invent some decent uses for old worthless hippies. We need to invent some cheaper ways stack old worthless hippies in old hippie communities that consume less resources as they dodder off into their sunset. And since only the market can invent some way to stack old worthless hippies, I IMPLORE YOU, please get out of the market’s way and let the magic happen.
batguano101,
Biggest intel failure since 9/11?
I think that credit belongs to the (non) existence of Iraqi WMD, awarded in 2003.
The blow-up in Georgia could have been the biggest failure since then, were it not for those spoilers with the NIA, and the about-face on Iranian nuclear ambitions they released last December.
But, yes, this is absolutely the biggest failure this year. So far.
Of course, it’s only August, so only the boldest would predict this is going to walk away with the 2008 Faulty Assessment of the International Landscape prize (FAIL ’08).
batguano101,
Biggest intel failure since 9/11?
I think that credit belongs to the (non) existence of Iraqi WMD, awarded in 2003.
The blow-up in Georgia could have been the biggest failure since then, were it not for those spoilers with the NIA, and the about-face on Iranian nuclear ambitions they released last December.
But, yes, this is absolutely the biggest failure this year. So far.
Of course, it’s only August, so only the boldest would predict this is going to walk away with the 2008 Faulty Assessment of the International Landscape prize (FAIL ’08).
McC***
Since when does abysmal academic performance in military studies, and a go-nowhere career in military leadership make somebody an expert?
His father and grandfather, yes. McC3? Not no much.
McC***
Since when does abysmal academic performance in military studies, and a go-nowhere career in military leadership make somebody an expert?
His father and grandfather, yes. McC3? Not no much.
And once again we have someone hiding behind a truly offensive handle here on an Internet forum. Jon, I’d like to see it be a requirement here that folks use their real names. Handles just encourage antisocial and juvenile behaviour from trolls.
To the point here, just because someone has been in the military does not necessarily qualify them to be Commander in Chief and know when to best use military force.
And once again we have someone hiding behind a truly offensive handle here on an Internet forum. Jon, I’d like to see it be a requirement here that folks use their real names. Handles just encourage antisocial and juvenile behaviour from trolls.
To the point here, just because someone has been in the military does not necessarily qualify them to be Commander in Chief and know when to best use military force.
Rick-I banished him. If he uses his real name he can come back and repeat his stupidity.
Rick-I banished him. If he uses his real name he can come back and repeat his stupidity.
Intelligence failure? I know the National Review wants to thinks so. Everybody with any interest in Russian regional politics has been talking about it for two years – in print. In 2006 Russia and Georgia were putting their troops on high alert and warning the UN about grave consequences and warning NATO about the unstabilizing consequences of expansion. These days when I hear Americans talk about “Intelligence Failure” I think “They knew all of this beforehand but made the wrong call on what to do.” ‘Decision Failure’ is the phrase your looking for.
Also, I know this is from a few comments back, but I hate to let it slide. Jon is right, it is western banks, not American. Five in the top 20 globally are American (in 2007). Three Chinese (Four if you call HSBC Chinese). The rest I guess you should call Western Banks.
Intelligence failure? I know the National Review wants to thinks so. Everybody with any interest in Russian regional politics has been talking about it for two years – in print. In 2006 Russia and Georgia were putting their troops on high alert and warning the UN about grave consequences and warning NATO about the unstabilizing consequences of expansion. These days when I hear Americans talk about “Intelligence Failure” I think “They knew all of this beforehand but made the wrong call on what to do.” ‘Decision Failure’ is the phrase your looking for.
Also, I know this is from a few comments back, but I hate to let it slide. Jon is right, it is western banks, not American. Five in the top 20 globally are American (in 2007). Three Chinese (Four if you call HSBC Chinese). The rest I guess you should call Western Banks.
Morgan, could you elaborate on how dirty hippies have ruined this country? Ushering in a new era of civil rights? Helping to end the war in Vietnam? Raising the quality bar in pop music? Pushing for a greener society? Embracing womens’ rights to equality (OK, that was after some weird trips in the sixties, but nonetheless…) Looking for something beyond disposable mediocrity in the culture? I don’t get it. My old hippie friends are mostly living clean and creative lives, and they have for decades. They’re good parents, and they tread lightly on the earth. What’s the problem?
Morgan, could you elaborate on how dirty hippies have ruined this country? Ushering in a new era of civil rights? Helping to end the war in Vietnam? Raising the quality bar in pop music? Pushing for a greener society? Embracing womens’ rights to equality (OK, that was after some weird trips in the sixties, but nonetheless…) Looking for something beyond disposable mediocrity in the culture? I don’t get it. My old hippie friends are mostly living clean and creative lives, and they have for decades. They’re good parents, and they tread lightly on the earth. What’s the problem?
Morgan- Your rant about Dirty Hippies sounds like it comes from some toothless redneck in “Easy Rider”. What trauma occured in your youth to make you so mad about the counter-culture? Rick is right from about 1958-1974 the counter-culture was not only the heart of the great social changes that you claim you support (civil rights, gay rights, womens rights, immigrant rights, ecology,etc). But more importantly, as John Markoff’s book, “What The Doormouse Said”, points out, it was the counterculture that created the personal computer revolution you make a living off of.
I know some times I’m hard on you because you write in such a rude style. But I understand, you are in one of those bridge generations that don’t really create change but provide a nice quiet transition between periods of change. So I have to say that I really appreciate listening to the lost generation you represent, even if I wish you weren’t quite so angry.
Morgan- Your rant about Dirty Hippies sounds like it comes from some toothless redneck in “Easy Rider”. What trauma occured in your youth to make you so mad about the counter-culture? Rick is right from about 1958-1974 the counter-culture was not only the heart of the great social changes that you claim you support (civil rights, gay rights, womens rights, immigrant rights, ecology,etc). But more importantly, as John Markoff’s book, “What The Doormouse Said”, points out, it was the counterculture that created the personal computer revolution you make a living off of.
I know some times I’m hard on you because you write in such a rude style. But I understand, you are in one of those bridge generations that don’t really create change but provide a nice quiet transition between periods of change. So I have to say that I really appreciate listening to the lost generation you represent, even if I wish you weren’t quite so angry.
Keith-Thanks for the Charles Grant Guardian piece. It seems to bear out what I was saying about the split between the business oriented Medevev and the “autarchic” Putin. This is a split that we can play to.
Keith-Thanks for the Charles Grant Guardian piece. It seems to bear out what I was saying about the split between the business oriented Medevev and the “autarchic” Putin. This is a split that we can play to.
Morgan, as far as I’m concerned you can rant all you want about Dirty Hippies, just don’t ever disparage Dirth Hippie Chicks, for verily they were the work of God, and were marvelous in my eyes.
Morgan, as far as I’m concerned you can rant all you want about Dirty Hippies, just don’t ever disparage Dirth Hippie Chicks, for verily they were the work of God, and were marvelous in my eyes.
Kenneth,
You bring up an interesting point. I think the rules committee for the FAIL prize should reconsider whether front-page news is, in fact, an viable resource for intelligence professionals tasked with considering the world at large, and the leaders who are expected to hear what those professionals have to say.
After all, actual news is a major fixture within the reality based community, exposure to which carries several well known risks – especially to the carefully cultivated myopia that is essential to professional success within our intelligence agencies and highest political offices.
And while the FAIL committee is dedicated to honoring the very best in bad intelligence, we do have to respect the basic well-being of those dedicated individuals who could jeopardize their very careers by coming into contact with truly hazardous and perception challenging material.
Additionally, we don’t want to tip the scales in favor of those reckless few who may endanger themselves and others by tempting them with the performance-enhancing effects of unfiltered public record. After all, that’s really the arena for those crazy X-Games types in certain think tanks, and their obsession with the Ignorance Derived from the Inability to Open the Times prize.
Accordingly, all in favor of referring the entry from Georgia to the folks on the committee of IDIOT, please say ‘aye’.
Kenneth,
You bring up an interesting point. I think the rules committee for the FAIL prize should reconsider whether front-page news is, in fact, an viable resource for intelligence professionals tasked with considering the world at large, and the leaders who are expected to hear what those professionals have to say.
After all, actual news is a major fixture within the reality based community, exposure to which carries several well known risks – especially to the carefully cultivated myopia that is essential to professional success within our intelligence agencies and highest political offices.
And while the FAIL committee is dedicated to honoring the very best in bad intelligence, we do have to respect the basic well-being of those dedicated individuals who could jeopardize their very careers by coming into contact with truly hazardous and perception challenging material.
Additionally, we don’t want to tip the scales in favor of those reckless few who may endanger themselves and others by tempting them with the performance-enhancing effects of unfiltered public record. After all, that’s really the arena for those crazy X-Games types in certain think tanks, and their obsession with the Ignorance Derived from the Inability to Open the Times prize.
Accordingly, all in favor of referring the entry from Georgia to the folks on the committee of IDIOT, please say ‘aye’.
Robert Miller,
We down here in t’othah Georgia shore do thank y’all’s efforts to keep us sep’rate fom them Georgians in the Old County. Bad enough them folks been invading the northern portion of our state. Why, jes this mo’nin’ I saw one a them Georgia Bigfoot critters at a Wal-Mart in Raybun Gap, and I donno whether she was a Bo-hemian simian or a Mo-ravin’ one, but she shore was big and she shore was a she and I don’t think any Wal-Mart in THIS Georgia’s got shoes or drawers what would fit her.
I kin see how’s a Russian might git a bit nervous living ’round one of them things. Folks sez they can play the banjo real good, though. So that’s somethin’ fo’em.
Robert Miller,
We down here in t’othah Georgia shore do thank y’all’s efforts to keep us sep’rate fom them Georgians in the Old County. Bad enough them folks been invading the northern portion of our state. Why, jes this mo’nin’ I saw one a them Georgia Bigfoot critters at a Wal-Mart in Raybun Gap, and I donno whether she was a Bo-hemian simian or a Mo-ravin’ one, but she shore was big and she shore was a she and I don’t think any Wal-Mart in THIS Georgia’s got shoes or drawers what would fit her.
I kin see how’s a Russian might git a bit nervous living ’round one of them things. Folks sez they can play the banjo real good, though. So that’s somethin’ fo’em.
That Georgia Big-Foot is just a large dirty biker hippie left over and lost from one of the Allman Brothers Annual Picnics that used to besmirch the reputation of Athens. Send that big and ignorant sucker over to Mr. Morgan to straighten his ass out. I last saw Mr. Bigfoot in about 1970 in the coffee shop in a motel sitting next to Bette Midler who was attending said picnic but looking a bit ragged at 9:00 AM. Yeah, I was there, too, but I guess that was implied.
That Georgia Big-Foot is just a large dirty biker hippie left over and lost from one of the Allman Brothers Annual Picnics that used to besmirch the reputation of Athens. Send that big and ignorant sucker over to Mr. Morgan to straighten his ass out. I last saw Mr. Bigfoot in about 1970 in the coffee shop in a motel sitting next to Bette Midler who was attending said picnic but looking a bit ragged at 9:00 AM. Yeah, I was there, too, but I guess that was implied.
Oh, to answer my previous question…Morgan missed out on the fun, Jon. Yeah, sex and drugs and rock’n'roll. There was some fun to be had there, and a lot of those people who missed out on the fun are really pissed off about it and resent those of us who did have our fun and survived as intact and creative people.
Oh, to answer my previous question…Morgan missed out on the fun, Jon. Yeah, sex and drugs and rock’n'roll. There was some fun to be had there, and a lot of those people who missed out on the fun are really pissed off about it and resent those of us who did have our fun and survived as intact and creative people.
Hey Kenneth, Right On!
Hey Kenneth, Right On!
Alex-
“WMD’s” were not an intelligence failure. That was intentional, a sales job.
The NIA preventing a repeat of the “WMD” technique to attack Iran was an intelligence success, not failure.
Kenneth-
Caught flat footed is an intelligence failure.
Poor judgment based on the separate reality of advisors, in spite of gathered data is still under intelligence failure rather than simply “decision failure”.
The use of Kissinger and distrust of official channel data and advise is an intelligence failure.
The US intelligence community failed interpreting and transmitting the correct analysis effectively to the principal.
Only time will tell, but this particular event may be looked back on as a sea change that long outlives Iraq with greater consequences.
Alex-
“WMD’s” were not an intelligence failure. That was intentional, a sales job.
The NIA preventing a repeat of the “WMD” technique to attack Iran was an intelligence success, not failure.
Kenneth-
Caught flat footed is an intelligence failure.
Poor judgment based on the separate reality of advisors, in spite of gathered data is still under intelligence failure rather than simply “decision failure”.
The use of Kissinger and distrust of official channel data and advise is an intelligence failure.
The US intelligence community failed interpreting and transmitting the correct analysis effectively to the principal.
Only time will tell, but this particular event may be looked back on as a sea change that long outlives Iraq with greater consequences.
“Dirty old hippies have caused most of the problems this country faces.”
No, dirty young hippies did that and now they are old comfortable stockholders and they are still ‘very proud of themselves. Up against the wall, MF.’
Thanks Hugo, but I don’t think we should bop the bear. The bear can bop itself. That kind of confrontation will only make it burn and slash.
First let’s get some help in there through available agencies to provide first aid, food, shelter, that sort of thing. I know Jon disagrees with my viewpoint on the Diggers and he was there and I wasn’t, so I read Coyote’s interviews. I think I’m right in that they did set out to help first, debate politics afterwards.
I also found Emmett’s description of The Last Waltz and the idea that where Altamont had been a disorganized mess, what made The Last Waltz such a perfect work was the planning and the commitment to the quality. I especially liked the bit about sending the horn players packing because their attitudes didn’t fit. As an exec, I get put in that position from time to time. I also find myself at odds with HR and team leaders who want to hire based on hair, dress and religious demeanor when in fact what we need is the long haired kid with the Microsoft certifications.
1. Do what helps without harm. Talk later.
2. Don’t beat the Mean Drum. It just makes them think fights are part of the party.
3. Fit is more important than form. Better a good Republican than a bad Democrat. And that from a Democrat BTW.
From a distance and with great respect, what happened in the 1960s and seventies has become the echo chamber. It made us who we are but there are many perspectives to that. I’d love to sit down and play guitar with my heros but I might not want to eat their food. I’ve sat and played guitar for Ginsberg while he improvised (a sweet dear man) and had dinner with Leary (whatta cosmic con) so I’m not totally out of the loop. Everyone has a story.
It is more important to Be Here Now. It is more important to put people ahead of ideology. Feed their stomachs, then their heads are ready to feed.
So Spy vs Spy. It will be more important that people have jobs, people have food, and they are warm. Then we can talk about the kinds of crap post-grads talk about while rubbing their fat buddha bellies.
Happy trails!
“Dirty old hippies have caused most of the problems this country faces.”
No, dirty young hippies did that and now they are old comfortable stockholders and they are still ‘very proud of themselves. Up against the wall, MF.’
Thanks Hugo, but I don’t think we should bop the bear. The bear can bop itself. That kind of confrontation will only make it burn and slash.
First let’s get some help in there through available agencies to provide first aid, food, shelter, that sort of thing. I know Jon disagrees with my viewpoint on the Diggers and he was there and I wasn’t, so I read Coyote’s interviews. I think I’m right in that they did set out to help first, debate politics afterwards.
I also found Emmett’s description of The Last Waltz and the idea that where Altamont had been a disorganized mess, what made The Last Waltz such a perfect work was the planning and the commitment to the quality. I especially liked the bit about sending the horn players packing because their attitudes didn’t fit. As an exec, I get put in that position from time to time. I also find myself at odds with HR and team leaders who want to hire based on hair, dress and religious demeanor when in fact what we need is the long haired kid with the Microsoft certifications.
1. Do what helps without harm. Talk later.
2. Don’t beat the Mean Drum. It just makes them think fights are part of the party.
3. Fit is more important than form. Better a good Republican than a bad Democrat. And that from a Democrat BTW.
From a distance and with great respect, what happened in the 1960s and seventies has become the echo chamber. It made us who we are but there are many perspectives to that. I’d love to sit down and play guitar with my heros but I might not want to eat their food. I’ve sat and played guitar for Ginsberg while he improvised (a sweet dear man) and had dinner with Leary (whatta cosmic con) so I’m not totally out of the loop. Everyone has a story.
It is more important to Be Here Now. It is more important to put people ahead of ideology. Feed their stomachs, then their heads are ready to feed.
So Spy vs Spy. It will be more important that people have jobs, people have food, and they are warm. Then we can talk about the kinds of crap post-grads talk about while rubbing their fat buddha bellies.
Happy trails!
A stronger, more lucid Administration would not have bothered much with the WMD angle (which turned out to be true, by by then everyone had left the Press Room); the Iraqi Administration was engaged, for a shockingly long time, in daily acts of war against the world’s greatest Commonwealth and the world’s most formidable superpower. It was absurd. It was a UN treaty violation. The more the UN Security Council ratched up its rhetoric with well over a dozen of its increasingly toothless “sanctions”, the more Iraq understood that this was the taunt of a scarecrow; the UN, which was horribly corrupt, top-down, at the time, was incapable of putting together any combined forces to enforce its own treaty, and fortunately the UK and USA gathered some partners and shut down the Iraqi war-making. It was long overdue.
The UN is an albatross.
A stronger, more lucid Administration would not have bothered much with the WMD angle (which turned out to be true, by by then everyone had left the Press Room); the Iraqi Administration was engaged, for a shockingly long time, in daily acts of war against the world’s greatest Commonwealth and the world’s most formidable superpower. It was absurd. It was a UN treaty violation. The more the UN Security Council ratched up its rhetoric with well over a dozen of its increasingly toothless “sanctions”, the more Iraq understood that this was the taunt of a scarecrow; the UN, which was horribly corrupt, top-down, at the time, was incapable of putting together any combined forces to enforce its own treaty, and fortunately the UK and USA gathered some partners and shut down the Iraqi war-making. It was long overdue.
The UN is an albatross.
Caught flat footed?
Not a time-line but consider that:
1. Before, during and after the recognition of Kosovo the Russians told the west -in English- how they were going to react to attempts to suppress the independence and ‘freedom’ seeking wishes of the several ‘autonomous’ regions near their borders.
2. The Russians were already present as ‘peacekeepers”.
3. SaakaSvili main case to the US and NATO has been that Russia is not going to react well to all the NATO entrance teasing.
Kremlinology it ain’t -
The Russians did what they said they would do.
You might convince me arguing that the US would rather act surprised than admit they were bluffing.
Caught flat footed?
Not a time-line but consider that:
1. Before, during and after the recognition of Kosovo the Russians told the west -in English- how they were going to react to attempts to suppress the independence and ‘freedom’ seeking wishes of the several ‘autonomous’ regions near their borders.
2. The Russians were already present as ‘peacekeepers”.
3. SaakaSvili main case to the US and NATO has been that Russia is not going to react well to all the NATO entrance teasing.
Kremlinology it ain’t -
The Russians did what they said they would do.
You might convince me arguing that the US would rather act surprised than admit they were bluffing.
Kenneth, the Russians have made a science of stating every position on every side or recondite oblique of every issue before them. They were purpose-bred for this, you know; when asked to state some simple such as the status of tanks amassing on the Georgian border, talk it to death. Take two parts Barack Obama and three parts John Edwards and one part Joe Biden and frickin talk the MFg thing to death. I have no effing idea why a lot of my Peeps are falling for it; it’s not like Ivan doesn’t have a track record.
Also, you boob, Hitler did what he said he was going to do. He your hero too?
Seriously, look into how Russia infiltrated, coopted, subborned and importuned in, say, the past 12 months. And compare that to what Germany did in the 12 months prior to the Rape of the Sudetenland. Same ting, mon. Trussme.
Kenneth, the Russians have made a science of stating every position on every side or recondite oblique of every issue before them. They were purpose-bred for this, you know; when asked to state some simple such as the status of tanks amassing on the Georgian border, talk it to death. Take two parts Barack Obama and three parts John Edwards and one part Joe Biden and frickin talk the MFg thing to death. I have no effing idea why a lot of my Peeps are falling for it; it’s not like Ivan doesn’t have a track record.
Also, you boob, Hitler did what he said he was going to do. He your hero too?
Seriously, look into how Russia infiltrated, coopted, subborned and importuned in, say, the past 12 months. And compare that to what Germany did in the 12 months prior to the Rape of the Sudetenland. Same ting, mon. Trussme.
Hugo,
‘The UN is an albatross.’
It would be more accurate to say the UN is a legislature. Bush’s crew had a point that the UN was hollow, but they’ve generally preferred high-handed snubs to constructive reform efforts. Bush sr. did a FAR better job of playing President to the UN’s Congress.
But Bush II has been quite consistent: he has been just as dismissive toward the US Congress as he has toward the UN.
This matters because both legislatures are needed in any fresh effort to contain the Bear.
Hugo,
‘The UN is an albatross.’
It would be more accurate to say the UN is a legislature. Bush’s crew had a point that the UN was hollow, but they’ve generally preferred high-handed snubs to constructive reform efforts. Bush sr. did a FAR better job of playing President to the UN’s Congress.
But Bush II has been quite consistent: he has been just as dismissive toward the US Congress as he has toward the UN.
This matters because both legislatures are needed in any fresh effort to contain the Bear.
B.S. UN RIP
You want a fresh break, start there. It’s a lot of hooey, and no longer does anyone any good. Were we to game the UN, we’d find SCORES of dissertations in it. But let’s not, and say we did, for who can judge the Purple-clad UN?
Kick ‘em out; start over. Same reasons as Jon’s explanation of Woodrow Wilson’s disastrous naivete.
I’m thinking, Mauritius, if they’ll have the scoundrels.
B.S. UN RIP
You want a fresh break, start there. It’s a lot of hooey, and no longer does anyone any good. Were we to game the UN, we’d find SCORES of dissertations in it. But let’s not, and say we did, for who can judge the Purple-clad UN?
Kick ‘em out; start over. Same reasons as Jon’s explanation of Woodrow Wilson’s disastrous naivete.
I’m thinking, Mauritius, if they’ll have the scoundrels.
LOOK guys,
When we have young republicans come over and study here and go home to become political leaders in burgeoning democracies, bent on reducing the influence of our worst enemy for the past half century – WE ARE GOING TO SUPPORT THEM. That’s how it is.
Jon talks a good game about foreign students, but thats WHAT THEY ARE FOR, to CHANGE where they go back to INTO US. Either that, or stay here, make a ton of money, and hire lots of our citizens down the line – hair cuts, solar panels, new swimming pools, tax base.
We have NO interest in bringing students here so they can go improve communism, or innovate foreign kidnapping operations.
So, let’s PLEASE stop with the deep strategic back-n-forth, and get down to brass tacks… OUR INTEREST, that we all agree on, is remaking the world in our own fucking image.
Now yes, sometimes that means, putting up with 2008 drummers, and getting every other government so addicted to the dollar, that when we over-spend, it taxes their holdings. But, ultimately, we have a plan, and that plan is hegemonic control of the globe towards behaviors and influences that benefit US.
Jesus, was everybody else asleep during International Politics 101? This is the game. WTF? We are winning and going to continue winning. DEAL with it, you freaking dirty hippies.
LOOK guys,
When we have young republicans come over and study here and go home to become political leaders in burgeoning democracies, bent on reducing the influence of our worst enemy for the past half century – WE ARE GOING TO SUPPORT THEM. That’s how it is.
Jon talks a good game about foreign students, but thats WHAT THEY ARE FOR, to CHANGE where they go back to INTO US. Either that, or stay here, make a ton of money, and hire lots of our citizens down the line – hair cuts, solar panels, new swimming pools, tax base.
We have NO interest in bringing students here so they can go improve communism, or innovate foreign kidnapping operations.
So, let’s PLEASE stop with the deep strategic back-n-forth, and get down to brass tacks… OUR INTEREST, that we all agree on, is remaking the world in our own fucking image.
Now yes, sometimes that means, putting up with 2008 drummers, and getting every other government so addicted to the dollar, that when we over-spend, it taxes their holdings. But, ultimately, we have a plan, and that plan is hegemonic control of the globe towards behaviors and influences that benefit US.
Jesus, was everybody else asleep during International Politics 101? This is the game. WTF? We are winning and going to continue winning. DEAL with it, you freaking dirty hippies.
Seriously, STS, I mean, I personally have loved a few of those diplomatic versions of trust babies, but I ask myself and ask you, what public objective that really matters to us would we be lame enough to entrust to those all-talk-and-no-action stuffed shirts? In the aggregate they’re worse than an albatross; they’re a millstone collar at sea.
Seriously, STS, I mean, I personally have loved a few of those diplomatic versions of trust babies, but I ask myself and ask you, what public objective that really matters to us would we be lame enough to entrust to those all-talk-and-no-action stuffed shirts? In the aggregate they’re worse than an albatross; they’re a millstone collar at sea.
Morgan-I know you are just trying to be provocative, but it’s stupid thug talk like yours that led me to make this post in the first place. You sound just like a Blackshirt. Eitherthat or your smoking that Meth again.
You have no idea how someone reading your post in any other country in the world would think you are the essence of the Ugly American. I vote we take up a collection and sponsor you in a Peace Corps job in Zambia.
Morgan-I know you are just trying to be provocative, but it’s stupid thug talk like yours that led me to make this post in the first place. You sound just like a Blackshirt. Eitherthat or your smoking that Meth again.
You have no idea how someone reading your post in any other country in the world would think you are the essence of the Ugly American. I vote we take up a collection and sponsor you in a Peace Corps job in Zambia.
Jon, I’m asking this honestly, so please answer honestly, do you remember Int. Poli. 101?
Seriously. Nation states seek to maximize their influence and power. That’s what they do.
They teach that in Zambia, Russia and here.
You want to be a citizen of the world, and preach some weird post-nation-state gospel, go right ahead.
So be clear, nothing I say is new, nothing sounds ugly, nothing sounds thuggish. Nothing sounds like anything that hasn’t been taught to a billion students. Thuggish is, “lets buy conflict diamonds because of advertising.” Thuggish is a “crusade.” Discussing realistically extending our influence in policy, not simply with poetry and art ir example – is the mark of NORMAL, and you’d do well to get in line and not sound so much like idiot celebrity when you make a point.
It is one thing, for you to have new ideas, it is quite another to pretend, you aren’t the odd ball out. It makes you seem unrealistic.
IN FACT, I have a challenge for you: please name ONE THING you and alex baldwin or ben affleck disagree on – I’m 99% sure you can’t.
Jon, I’m asking this honestly, so please answer honestly, do you remember Int. Poli. 101?
Seriously. Nation states seek to maximize their influence and power. That’s what they do.
They teach that in Zambia, Russia and here.
You want to be a citizen of the world, and preach some weird post-nation-state gospel, go right ahead.
So be clear, nothing I say is new, nothing sounds ugly, nothing sounds thuggish. Nothing sounds like anything that hasn’t been taught to a billion students. Thuggish is, “lets buy conflict diamonds because of advertising.” Thuggish is a “crusade.” Discussing realistically extending our influence in policy, not simply with poetry and art ir example – is the mark of NORMAL, and you’d do well to get in line and not sound so much like idiot celebrity when you make a point.
It is one thing, for you to have new ideas, it is quite another to pretend, you aren’t the odd ball out. It makes you seem unrealistic.
IN FACT, I have a challenge for you: please name ONE THING you and alex baldwin or ben affleck disagree on – I’m 99% sure you can’t.
Morgan-I can’t stand Alec Baldwin and know nothing about Ben Affleck’s politics. Does it ever occur to you that when you say we are “remaking the world in our own fucking image”, it is exactly what the citizens of many countries fear? Your Texas gunslinger rhetoric is exactly why George Bush (who uses the same tone) is such a monumental failure as both a President and a “leaderof the free world.”
Morgan-I can’t stand Alec Baldwin and know nothing about Ben Affleck’s politics. Does it ever occur to you that when you say we are “remaking the world in our own fucking image”, it is exactly what the citizens of many countries fear? Your Texas gunslinger rhetoric is exactly why George Bush (who uses the same tone) is such a monumental failure as both a President and a “leaderof the free world.”
I haven’t heard ANY conservative suggest that we do anything militarily against Russia.
In fact, people like Rush and Hannity think it would be stupid to do so.
As for the tired and debunked notion that a person must join the military in order to advocate military action: one need not experience X in order to approve of X or comment on it intelligently.
Do you approve of your neighborhood being crime free and criminals arrested? Then you should be a police officer. If you’re not, how dare you wish that someone risk their lives to fight crime when you’re not willing to do the same yourself?
When fires ignite in your neighborhood, do you like it when they are extinguished and not let to burn for days (or longer)? Then you should be a firefighter. If you’re not, you happily expect other people to risk their lives fighting flames but won’t do it yourself?
Other examples could be given, but I hope you comprehend the silliness of this infantile “chickenhawk” crap. Leave the logic to conservatives.
I haven’t heard ANY conservative suggest that we do anything militarily against Russia.
In fact, people like Rush and Hannity think it would be stupid to do so.
As for the tired and debunked notion that a person must join the military in order to advocate military action: one need not experience X in order to approve of X or comment on it intelligently.
Do you approve of your neighborhood being crime free and criminals arrested? Then you should be a police officer. If you’re not, how dare you wish that someone risk their lives to fight crime when you’re not willing to do the same yourself?
When fires ignite in your neighborhood, do you like it when they are extinguished and not let to burn for days (or longer)? Then you should be a firefighter. If you’re not, you happily expect other people to risk their lives fighting flames but won’t do it yourself?
Other examples could be given, but I hope you comprehend the silliness of this infantile “chickenhawk” crap. Leave the logic to conservatives.
tsfiles-It’s one thing for a town to hire firefighters, a job that must be done. It is another thing for a bunch of “chickenhawks” (your word, not mine) to gin up a war of choice in Iraq that will ultimately kill thousands of our young men and women and maim tens of thousands more; not to mention the expenditure of perhaps $2 trillion (Joe Stiglitz’s estimate) of your tax dollars that might have been used to rebuild the broken schools, roads, bridges and power plant of this country.
The “logic” of conservatism you worship at, is going to leave us in the position of a “sharecropper society” (Warren Buffet’s words) owing the Chinese and the Russian all the surplus capital we produce to pay off our loans to them.
tsfiles-It’s one thing for a town to hire firefighters, a job that must be done. It is another thing for a bunch of “chickenhawks” (your word, not mine) to gin up a war of choice in Iraq that will ultimately kill thousands of our young men and women and maim tens of thousands more; not to mention the expenditure of perhaps $2 trillion (Joe Stiglitz’s estimate) of your tax dollars that might have been used to rebuild the broken schools, roads, bridges and power plant of this country.
The “logic” of conservatism you worship at, is going to leave us in the position of a “sharecropper society” (Warren Buffet’s words) owing the Chinese and the Russian all the surplus capital we produce to pay off our loans to them.
Ok Jon, now this is interesting… I have some questions, there is some nuance, please don’t reflexively shorten my points in a response.
1. Why do you assume citizens of other countries do not understand that ALL nations EVEN THEIR OWN seek to maximize their power and influence. Certainly all the foreign leaders understand it, the autocrats, the war lords, the dictators – they ALL understand the premise of Int. Poli is for each nation-state to remake the world in their own image, to their own ends, hell people come here from foreign lands and live amongst themselves, changing small blocks in West Hollywood into small Russian communities, Armenians are a very tight knit crowd, you get the drift. People do this stuff by instinct.
MY POINT is one I think Obama himself doesn’t quite understand, or he exploits to get you to follow him – OTHER countries that rage against US imperialism, are the same kinds of people as we are – they would do what we can do, if we could do it. Their ANGER at American cowboy mentality, is ANGER that we CAN do this, not that we DO do this. If not for us, it would be directed at the next other guy. If not for us, they themselves would be doing it to us.
2. OUR WAY IS WORKING. China hasn’t become an autocratic capitalist state because the US was a strong socialist economy that nationalized health care, banking, and unionized work. China has come autocratic capitalist state BECAUSE we underwent the Reagan revolution – they saw that power stems from workable systems that GROW, and the most workable system is OURS – the one you want to kill.
China is on a path towards us. David Brock’s ideas not withstanding, each year, China becomes more dependent on our currency, on free trade, and soon they’ll be allowing Religion – which you certainly support (way to go George Bush).
3. Why do you think other countries fear gaining freedom and democracy? Not the foreign leaders, the autocrats and the dictators and the war lords, the citizens of the world you care about, why do you think they aren’t IN SECRET LOVE with our country. I my travels they are fascinated. Sure they want to rail against us, but of course the do. They also all want to move here – at least visit aggressively. Are you aware that the largest web portals in Turkey and Brazil grew out of bulletin boards on “how to get your green card.” So even if the citizens of the world don’t understand international political theory, they tend to be more open to US than you admit.
This third point you don’t seem to get I imagine because you teach foreign students in coursework wherein you spend a bunch of time reminding them how bad this country is… rather than pointing out to them over and over, they are complicit in our approach because they chose to come here – which is a good and noble thing to be complicit to.
So those are my three points:
1. Everyone understands what America seeks to do is the natural way of power. Complaints are a facade.
2. Capitalism (our hegemonic MO) actually works – it isn’t a theory. Your alternative theory doesn’t work. Other countries that tried it lost power.
3. You should promote our MO, not badmouth it. I’m not saying get in line, I’m saying, give rational tribute – every dialogue is a debate, and every debate is a sale, and in every sale someone is the buyer and someone is the seller – and you seem to BUY to much of what other countries are selling, and don’t SELL enough of our superior product.
Ok Jon, now this is interesting… I have some questions, there is some nuance, please don’t reflexively shorten my points in a response.
1. Why do you assume citizens of other countries do not understand that ALL nations EVEN THEIR OWN seek to maximize their power and influence. Certainly all the foreign leaders understand it, the autocrats, the war lords, the dictators – they ALL understand the premise of Int. Poli is for each nation-state to remake the world in their own image, to their own ends, hell people come here from foreign lands and live amongst themselves, changing small blocks in West Hollywood into small Russian communities, Armenians are a very tight knit crowd, you get the drift. People do this stuff by instinct.
MY POINT is one I think Obama himself doesn’t quite understand, or he exploits to get you to follow him – OTHER countries that rage against US imperialism, are the same kinds of people as we are – they would do what we can do, if we could do it. Their ANGER at American cowboy mentality, is ANGER that we CAN do this, not that we DO do this. If not for us, it would be directed at the next other guy. If not for us, they themselves would be doing it to us.
2. OUR WAY IS WORKING. China hasn’t become an autocratic capitalist state because the US was a strong socialist economy that nationalized health care, banking, and unionized work. China has come autocratic capitalist state BECAUSE we underwent the Reagan revolution – they saw that power stems from workable systems that GROW, and the most workable system is OURS – the one you want to kill.
China is on a path towards us. David Brock’s ideas not withstanding, each year, China becomes more dependent on our currency, on free trade, and soon they’ll be allowing Religion – which you certainly support (way to go George Bush).
3. Why do you think other countries fear gaining freedom and democracy? Not the foreign leaders, the autocrats and the dictators and the war lords, the citizens of the world you care about, why do you think they aren’t IN SECRET LOVE with our country. I my travels they are fascinated. Sure they want to rail against us, but of course the do. They also all want to move here – at least visit aggressively. Are you aware that the largest web portals in Turkey and Brazil grew out of bulletin boards on “how to get your green card.” So even if the citizens of the world don’t understand international political theory, they tend to be more open to US than you admit.
This third point you don’t seem to get I imagine because you teach foreign students in coursework wherein you spend a bunch of time reminding them how bad this country is… rather than pointing out to them over and over, they are complicit in our approach because they chose to come here – which is a good and noble thing to be complicit to.
So those are my three points:
1. Everyone understands what America seeks to do is the natural way of power. Complaints are a facade.
2. Capitalism (our hegemonic MO) actually works – it isn’t a theory. Your alternative theory doesn’t work. Other countries that tried it lost power.
3. You should promote our MO, not badmouth it. I’m not saying get in line, I’m saying, give rational tribute – every dialogue is a debate, and every debate is a sale, and in every sale someone is the buyer and someone is the seller – and you seem to BUY to much of what other countries are selling, and don’t SELL enough of our superior product.
The Arabs, the Chinese, and the Russians are doing to us what we thought we did to the Soviet Union…breaking us economically. To them, we are just a bunch of blustering suckers about to fall on our faces and be beholden to them for another few hundred years. The Repubs have walked us into a tragic am-Bush.
The Arabs, the Chinese, and the Russians are doing to us what we thought we did to the Soviet Union…breaking us economically. To them, we are just a bunch of blustering suckers about to fall on our faces and be beholden to them for another few hundred years. The Repubs have walked us into a tragic am-Bush.
Morgan- Your last post is a good challenge to me. I am going to start a new thread/post about it.
Morgan- Your last post is a good challenge to me. I am going to start a new thread/post about it.
The fascist impulse of Jon’s title depends for its practical effect on certain conceptual bait-and-switch tactics, which I see illustrated more than once on this thread.
Hugo provides an example with his ad hominem argument that “trust babies” who are “all-talk-and-no-action stuffed shirts” — i.e. bad legislatORs — must be addressed by disregarding or eliminating the legislaTURE: the argument of would-be dictators everywhere.
People try to corrupt legislators for the same reason Willy Sutton robbed banks — that’s where the (tax) money is. That’s no reason to substitute mystical faith in the moral excellence of some heroic individual for the messy business of consensus building through legislative wrangling. I don’t think Hugo meant to supply us with a man on horseback, but the argument is essentially the same.
Morgan, on the other hand is a constant illustration of the kind of double-think required for supporting evil regimes: universal values exist, but are privately revealed to my tribe. It’s also clear that Morgan’s tribe excludes some Americans (dirty f’g hippies) and all non-Americans. Thus right-thinking Libertarians can enjoy their liberty, but not those DFH’s. American’s can enjoy their liberty, but not those DF foreigners. American’s can DO all the things we object to when evil regimes do them, but are unaffected because of our Purity of Essence. When America does it, that means it is not immoral.
I think Jesus was closer to the truth with, “…by their fruits ye shall know them.”
The fascist impulse of Jon’s title depends for its practical effect on certain conceptual bait-and-switch tactics, which I see illustrated more than once on this thread.
Hugo provides an example with his ad hominem argument that “trust babies” who are “all-talk-and-no-action stuffed shirts” — i.e. bad legislatORs — must be addressed by disregarding or eliminating the legislaTURE: the argument of would-be dictators everywhere.
People try to corrupt legislators for the same reason Willy Sutton robbed banks — that’s where the (tax) money is. That’s no reason to substitute mystical faith in the moral excellence of some heroic individual for the messy business of consensus building through legislative wrangling. I don’t think Hugo meant to supply us with a man on horseback, but the argument is essentially the same.
Morgan, on the other hand is a constant illustration of the kind of double-think required for supporting evil regimes: universal values exist, but are privately revealed to my tribe. It’s also clear that Morgan’s tribe excludes some Americans (dirty f’g hippies) and all non-Americans. Thus right-thinking Libertarians can enjoy their liberty, but not those DFH’s. American’s can enjoy their liberty, but not those DF foreigners. American’s can DO all the things we object to when evil regimes do them, but are unaffected because of our Purity of Essence. When America does it, that means it is not immoral.
I think Jesus was closer to the truth with, “…by their fruits ye shall know them.”
STS,
You’re so sexy when you adopt the authorial omniscient voice and act the arbiter. But your logic is a bird’s nest, like that tangled Brutalist playground in Beijing.
What you’ve accused me of is not Fascism, but rather Anarchism. I happen to reject both.
I’d already rejected your suggestion that the UN is a “legislature” necessary to the protection of our national security interest. Were the UN a legislature we’d already have world government, that fond fantasy of Fascists and other totalitarians. But we see that the organization is far from the International Triumphant; it’s more akin to the “It’s a Small World” ride in Anaheim or Orlando, or as seen recently in the Brutalist Bird’s Nest (except with well, you know, larger costumes and even more stage props). Which is to say that not only was the UN chartered for more modest purposes, its purposes and its “fruits” have become far more modest than those anticipated in its absurd Charters.
As for this present problem with the neo-expansionist Russians, the markets, the monetary and economic organizations, and some good old-fashioned muscle-flexing (not to say -use) will take care of it, for a time.
Finally, I hadn’t resorted to ad hominem argument, only to caricature, a favorite device (vide supra), along with satire by exaggeration, as also above. You sure don’t need much to up and call a person a Fascist, do you? Gore Vidal had that problem. Poor man’s quite demented now. Too bad; he’s actually a polite and kind fellow.
STS,
You’re so sexy when you adopt the authorial omniscient voice and act the arbiter. But your logic is a bird’s nest, like that tangled Brutalist playground in Beijing.
What you’ve accused me of is not Fascism, but rather Anarchism. I happen to reject both.
I’d already rejected your suggestion that the UN is a “legislature” necessary to the protection of our national security interest. Were the UN a legislature we’d already have world government, that fond fantasy of Fascists and other totalitarians. But we see that the organization is far from the International Triumphant; it’s more akin to the “It’s a Small World” ride in Anaheim or Orlando, or as seen recently in the Brutalist Bird’s Nest (except with well, you know, larger costumes and even more stage props). Which is to say that not only was the UN chartered for more modest purposes, its purposes and its “fruits” have become far more modest than those anticipated in its absurd Charters.
As for this present problem with the neo-expansionist Russians, the markets, the monetary and economic organizations, and some good old-fashioned muscle-flexing (not to say -use) will take care of it, for a time.
Finally, I hadn’t resorted to ad hominem argument, only to caricature, a favorite device (vide supra), along with satire by exaggeration, as also above. You sure don’t need much to up and call a person a Fascist, do you? Gore Vidal had that problem. Poor man’s quite demented now. Too bad; he’s actually a polite and kind fellow.
Hugo-STS’s point is that we need some sort of multilateral institutions. They may not help us with the Big Dogs, but they sure could help with the petty tyrants like Mugabe and whoever is causing the genocide in Darfur.
How could we make the UN work again?
Hugo-STS’s point is that we need some sort of multilateral institutions. They may not help us with the Big Dogs, but they sure could help with the petty tyrants like Mugabe and whoever is causing the genocide in Darfur.
How could we make the UN work again?
Morgan *Warstler* — now there’s a name from the past. In the past few years I had thought maybe he learned that spending all his time getting into pointless online flame wars and generally being an ass were among the reasons for his many failures. Failure after failure after failure. After failure.
Of course, being a crazed cokehound and basically committing a bunch of fraud was all part of it, too. As was generally thinking that business is really just one big party.
Why anyone would listen to him or ever take him seriously — even without all the drugs and fraud, he’s really just an overgrown, obnoxious, suburban fratboy — is beyond me. But carry on.
Morgan *Warstler* — now there’s a name from the past. In the past few years I had thought maybe he learned that spending all his time getting into pointless online flame wars and generally being an ass were among the reasons for his many failures. Failure after failure after failure. After failure.
Of course, being a crazed cokehound and basically committing a bunch of fraud was all part of it, too. As was generally thinking that business is really just one big party.
Why anyone would listen to him or ever take him seriously — even without all the drugs and fraud, he’s really just an overgrown, obnoxious, suburban fratboy — is beyond me. But carry on.
Jon,
STS’s two purposes were to argue for the UN specifically and to find some twisted way of convincing himself that I’m a Fascist. How asinine.
Your fig leaf for both STS, the need for some multilateral organizations, is a bit odd, coming from someone so knowledgeable of the various multilateral economic organizations. Let’s add The World Court and NATO. The UN is irreparable; it has become a worldwide mega-bureaucracy the organizatiomal culture of which is Neo-Marxism, anti-Americanism, corruption and incoherent. Even its charters are as incoherent as STS. I’m very fond of the New York complex though. The Saarinens were my favorites. I’m sure Mayor Bloomberg could find a truly amirable reuse. He might even foot the bill for the rehab of the structures. The present tenants refuse to do so.
Jon I’m really surprised to see how many of your smart Proggies have historical command extending all the way back to Clinton; have no grasp of defense strategy or diplomacy; and
Jon,
STS’s two purposes were to argue for the UN specifically and to find some twisted way of convincing himself that I’m a Fascist. How asinine.
Your fig leaf for both STS, the need for some multilateral organizations, is a bit odd, coming from someone so knowledgeable of the various multilateral economic organizations. Let’s add The World Court and NATO. The UN is irreparable; it has become a worldwide mega-bureaucracy the organizatiomal culture of which is Neo-Marxism, anti-Americanism, corruption and incoherent. Even its charters are as incoherent as STS. I’m very fond of the New York complex though. The Saarinens were my favorites. I’m sure Mayor Bloomberg could find a truly amirable reuse. He might even foot the bill for the rehab of the structures. The present tenants refuse to do so.
Jon I’m really surprised to see how many of your smart Proggies have historical command extending all the way back to Clinton; have no grasp of defense strategy or diplomacy; and
…and no idea that the U.S. actually does have brutal, treacherous and mortal enemies other than al-Qaeda. Many of them resort to diversion from these lacks; if they haven’t a grasp of the facts nor anything new to say, they tend to spout the sort of smartass slogans, one-liners and calorie-free pseudo-arguments I used to crank out for Left/Liberal Democrats. They actually fall for the shit!
These folks’ idea of national security is sounding more and more like, “Just don’t make waves in my bubbly bubbly bubble bath.” At least chickenhawks are vigilant, but these guys are just widdle wubber duckies, all in a row.
…and no idea that the U.S. actually does have brutal, treacherous and mortal enemies other than al-Qaeda. Many of them resort to diversion from these lacks; if they haven’t a grasp of the facts nor anything new to say, they tend to spout the sort of smartass slogans, one-liners and calorie-free pseudo-arguments I used to crank out for Left/Liberal Democrats. They actually fall for the shit!
These folks’ idea of national security is sounding more and more like, “Just don’t make waves in my bubbly bubbly bubble bath.” At least chickenhawks are vigilant, but these guys are just widdle wubber duckies, all in a row.
Hugo- I don’t think you are a fascist, neither does STS. Our problem is that your “historical command” never left the cold war. Some of us believe that there are new technologies of cooperation and energy generation (like the photovoltaic cell that follows Moore’s Law in its energy generating power) that can release us from the zero sum game you seem to think we will forever be engaged in.
That’s part of Len’s Magick. You and I both know that we need more of that and less of this very expensive posturing.
Hugo- I don’t think you are a fascist, neither does STS. Our problem is that your “historical command” never left the cold war. Some of us believe that there are new technologies of cooperation and energy generation (like the photovoltaic cell that follows Moore’s Law in its energy generating power) that can release us from the zero sum game you seem to think we will forever be engaged in.
That’s part of Len’s Magick. You and I both know that we need more of that and less of this very expensive posturing.
I actually agree with Morgan Wrastler that government’s goal is to take care of its own country’s interest and should try at all times to benefit its people.
But Morgan seems to think his goverment’s interests are the same as his country’s interest.
And that what benefits his government necessarily benefits his fellow citizens.
While in effect his own party is taking a royal dump on top of his head and his reaction to this is to yell “Right On!” and “YUM, more!”
I actually agree with Morgan Wrastler that government’s goal is to take care of its own country’s interest and should try at all times to benefit its people.
But Morgan seems to think his goverment’s interests are the same as his country’s interest.
And that what benefits his government necessarily benefits his fellow citizens.
While in effect his own party is taking a royal dump on top of his head and his reaction to this is to yell “Right On!” and “YUM, more!”
Jon,
I have said right along that it’s the Putin gang and their followers who are indulging in Cold War behaviors. And indeed the renewal of their military, their provocation, their authoritarianism and expansionism, and their rejection of democracy all do present a case for a Cold War parallel.
But the parallel I keep drawing is not a Cold War one. I, and historians across the the country and around the World are struck by the almost bizarre yet mounting similarities to Germany between the wars. As one historian put it, it’s as though the Russians were reenacting a sad chapter from a history textbook, but a chapter about another country. A lot of people who trade in the Past are saying they’ve neither studied nor seen anything like this kind of textbook repetition.
But I don’t find it it particularly frightening, because I view it as a kind of disclosure or revelation that I suspect can be explained only by the latest in the Girardian theory of mimetic violence. (I’ll get you those two essays I’d promised.)
By the way, your excerpt from a Mr. Bill Weller’s NYT piece is perfect; perfect in that every sentence in it is wrong. The Times has a special knack for finding analytical writers who don’t know anything about anything except catchy, wishful angles and hooks. Wherever do they find such anglers, capable of making an artificial yet verisimilitudinous bait out of pure horseshit?
I’m thinking it’s gotta be Columbia.
Jon,
I have said right along that it’s the Putin gang and their followers who are indulging in Cold War behaviors. And indeed the renewal of their military, their provocation, their authoritarianism and expansionism, and their rejection of democracy all do present a case for a Cold War parallel.
But the parallel I keep drawing is not a Cold War one. I, and historians across the the country and around the World are struck by the almost bizarre yet mounting similarities to Germany between the wars. As one historian put it, it’s as though the Russians were reenacting a sad chapter from a history textbook, but a chapter about another country. A lot of people who trade in the Past are saying they’ve neither studied nor seen anything like this kind of textbook repetition.
But I don’t find it it particularly frightening, because I view it as a kind of disclosure or revelation that I suspect can be explained only by the latest in the Girardian theory of mimetic violence. (I’ll get you those two essays I’d promised.)
By the way, your excerpt from a Mr. Bill Weller’s NYT piece is perfect; perfect in that every sentence in it is wrong. The Times has a special knack for finding analytical writers who don’t know anything about anything except catchy, wishful angles and hooks. Wherever do they find such anglers, capable of making an artificial yet verisimilitudinous bait out of pure horseshit?
I’m thinking it’s gotta be Columbia.
Hugo,
I didn’t call you a fascist and don’t care much for the UN as it is presently constituted. I do care about liberal democracy (broadly construed) and have noticed that its enemies love to write poisonously about the foibles of its institutions as a way of undermining them.
The UN was conceived as a vehicle for extending the rule of law into at least some international disputes. That it hasn’t worked terribly well doesn’t make it in the US interest to casually disparage it. I’d prefer to see reform proposals or even some kind of replacement (eg McCain’s league of democracies?) rather than Bolton-esque heckling.
Hugo,
I didn’t call you a fascist and don’t care much for the UN as it is presently constituted. I do care about liberal democracy (broadly construed) and have noticed that its enemies love to write poisonously about the foibles of its institutions as a way of undermining them.
The UN was conceived as a vehicle for extending the rule of law into at least some international disputes. That it hasn’t worked terribly well doesn’t make it in the US interest to casually disparage it. I’d prefer to see reform proposals or even some kind of replacement (eg McCain’s league of democracies?) rather than Bolton-esque heckling.
Hugo- The best analysis of what went wrong in Georgia I’ve read is here. I’d love to know what you think of this?
Hugo- The best analysis of what went wrong in Georgia I’ve read is here. I’d love to know what you think of this?
JT:
Well you managed to touch off the fire on both sides.
It is sad that the only solution we have for democratic status is start a war. Only by killing each other can we stand above the mess and play king of the hill.
Even the military is getting tired. Each member is already committed to “multi” tours an pushed to the limits.
UN – want to show me something, Indians have status except in the US. We have enough issues between our own borders too deal with. When do we stay home and take care of our own yard.
JT:
Well you managed to touch off the fire on both sides.
It is sad that the only solution we have for democratic status is start a war. Only by killing each other can we stand above the mess and play king of the hill.
Even the military is getting tired. Each member is already committed to “multi” tours an pushed to the limits.
UN – want to show me something, Indians have status except in the US. We have enough issues between our own borders too deal with. When do we stay home and take care of our own yard.
A sugestion?
http://jtaplin.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/obama-hammers-mccain/#comment-5793
A sugestion?
http://jtaplin.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/obama-hammers-mccain/#comment-5793
Wrong thread, sorry.
Wrong thread, sorry.
> Let’s just be glad the Iraq war is ending on a positive note. We both agree it would have been horrible if we left the place worse off than we found it. We have much to agree about in Iraq.
A fine piece of satire – Swift would blush and bow. Iraq is a disaster. Your positive note that the curtain falls on (dust off your hands and enjoy a lemonade, America, the job in the desert is done), comes at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians slaughtered by Americans and insurgents; at the cost of the US descent into a nation that advances torture while it strips rights from its citizenry to protect it from shadows; at the cost of America’s status as a leader on the world stage to some overgrown freak cousin that must be heeded because of his violent, uncontrollable outbursts; and last in my mind but first in the punditry, the depletion of military and economic resources. Then there’s you, Morgan, the cost of having to hear people like yourself defend the grim, bloody journey of the man-idiot, W, the leader to whom you pledge fealty on bended knee, to his fulfillment as a failed usher of some neo-cultist apocalypse. The bloodlust that constantly drives the US public and media to violent delirium every 2o years or so, followed by a decade of contrite soul-searching, is shared by all who allow war-mongering leaders to remain in power though their constitution grants them all the power needed to remove such leaders. But people like you, who actually strive to defend it by trolling blogs (fighting the good fight, aren’t we) and raising ire, smirking to yourself from the comfort of your armchair while hospitals in Baghdad struggle to work without reliable electricity. You must gaze at scorched earth and think to yourself, what a wonderful world.
> Let’s just be glad the Iraq war is ending on a positive note. We both agree it would have been horrible if we left the place worse off than we found it. We have much to agree about in Iraq.
A fine piece of satire – Swift would blush and bow. Iraq is a disaster. Your positive note that the curtain falls on (dust off your hands and enjoy a lemonade, America, the job in the desert is done), comes at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians slaughtered by Americans and insurgents; at the cost of the US descent into a nation that advances torture while it strips rights from its citizenry to protect it from shadows; at the cost of America’s status as a leader on the world stage to some overgrown freak cousin that must be heeded because of his violent, uncontrollable outbursts; and last in my mind but first in the punditry, the depletion of military and economic resources. Then there’s you, Morgan, the cost of having to hear people like yourself defend the grim, bloody journey of the man-idiot, W, the leader to whom you pledge fealty on bended knee, to his fulfillment as a failed usher of some neo-cultist apocalypse. The bloodlust that constantly drives the US public and media to violent delirium every 2o years or so, followed by a decade of contrite soul-searching, is shared by all who allow war-mongering leaders to remain in power though their constitution grants them all the power needed to remove such leaders. But people like you, who actually strive to defend it by trolling blogs (fighting the good fight, aren’t we) and raising ire, smirking to yourself from the comfort of your armchair while hospitals in Baghdad struggle to work without reliable electricity. You must gaze at scorched earth and think to yourself, what a wonderful world.
For a little perspective on post-surge Baghdad, watch this report on youtube.
For a little perspective on post-surge Baghdad, watch this report on youtube.
STS,
Bigawd you’re right! Strictly speaking, you didn’t call me a Fascist. You merely stereotyped me as one, just as, here, you pigeonhole me with the UN enemies on the Right. It seems not to have occurred to you that I might have come to my positions, from a background quite different from that which you may suppose, on the basis of my
own experience or scholarship. So the Walrus wasn’t John and Morgan didn’t call Jon unpatriotic. There. Done.
My view of the UN is not that it’s got its “foibles”, but that is trite, corrupt and dangerous, and that for many years, not only out of New York but also through its lavish offices across Europe, to undermine the liberal (broadly conceived) principles upon which it was founded and to which you and I, by contrast, remain committed. I’ve already called here for superseding the whole farrago.
And I do have my reasons.
STS,
Bigawd you’re right! Strictly speaking, you didn’t call me a Fascist. You merely stereotyped me as one, just as, here, you pigeonhole me with the UN enemies on the Right. It seems not to have occurred to you that I might have come to my positions, from a background quite different from that which you may suppose, on the basis of my
own experience or scholarship. So the Walrus wasn’t John and Morgan didn’t call Jon unpatriotic. There. Done.
My view of the UN is not that it’s got its “foibles”, but that is trite, corrupt and dangerous, and that for many years, not only out of New York but also through its lavish offices across Europe, to undermine the liberal (broadly conceived) principles upon which it was founded and to which you and I, by contrast, remain committed. I’ve already called here for superseding the whole farrago.
And I do have my reasons.
STS:
On behalf of those of us who lack even “a little perspective” on the Surge, thank you for your continued tutelage.
STS:
On behalf of those of us who lack even “a little perspective” on the Surge, thank you for your continued tutelage.